Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi everyone Great game, i'm loving it (just got my copy today) My only concern was the fact that the Italians are just represented by one desert uniform (i may be wrong about this, i've only had the game for a day) Italy's involvment in Africa and later in the defense of the Italian lands was substanial and Italian soldiers wore many unique uniforms that IMO would look great in CMAK ^Folgore paratroopers (these elite soldiers fought a VERY fierce battle at El Alamein) (far left) ^Bersaglieri light infantry (i am lookin for good picture of blackshirt soldiers) ^Blackshirts ^RSI (Pro German Italians after 1943) Paratroopers Also is there are RSI (post 1943) Italian forces? They fought very many battles in Northern Italy and were a much larger force than the "Pro allied" forces 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Botto: My only concern was the fact that the Italians are just represented by one desert uniform (i may be wrong about this, i've only had the game for a day)Yes, you are wrong Co/Bn officers wear tropical jackets and shirts, Platoon officers wear sharianas while the squads wear saharianas (the paratrooper's ones are different from the mech. inf. saharianas) and camicciotti sahariani (sorry for my Italian ). Italian paratroopers wear their unique ammo pouches, belt and shoulder straps. They are not the only uniforms available for the Italian indeed. In July and August 1943 (Sicily campaign) the Italian infantry wear continental woollen uniforms while the Italian paratroopers wear their camoed smocks, jump boots and paratrooper equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Very good news! But are the black Blackshirt uniforms included? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 It seems the El Alamein paratroopers are still wearing the same desert uniform as the normal Italian army is possible to change this? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Botto: It seems the El Alamein paratroopers are still wearing the same desert uniform as the normal Italian army is possible to change this? :confused: I'm afraid it's the uniform they were wearing at El Alamein. However it's not exactly the same as the uniform worn by the rest of the Italian army. The Italian paratroopers wear a collarless Sahariana with the Paratrooper insignia which was worn by the Italian paratroopers ONLY. The basic equipment (belt, shoulder starps and ammo pouches) is the Italian paratrooper one which is also different from the Italian infantry equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Folgore paratroopers (1941-1942) Folgore at El Alamein Drawing of technique Folgore used to destroy Allied tanks at El Alamein 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denwad Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Exactly what is he doing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 placing anti-tank magnetic bomb under enemy tank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 You'd have to pray the tank doesn't decide to change direction while he's under there. :eek: I'm guessing this particular method of destroying enemy AFV's was not particularly popular amongst the troops. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Botto: placing anti-tank magnetic bomb under enemy tank I thought he was getting ready to go water skiing or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: You'd have to pray the tank doesn't decide to change direction while he's under there. :eek: I'm guessing this particular method of destroying enemy AFV's was not particularly popular amongst the troops. Regards Jim R. Many of them probably did it knowing it was sucidie mission 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Here's a pic of Italian paratroopers at El Alamein: Please notice that they aren't troops in aparade or in maneuvers, but combat troops manning a position not far from the enemy. They are wearing sun helmets, jump boots and Italian paratrooper ammo pouches (IIRC some hand grenades could also be carried) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P5 Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 General De Bono in Abyssinia...way before the action started in North-Africa... Btw, is that a man from a tank unit in the background, wearing a black uniform...or? De Bono 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: You'd have to pray the tank doesn't decide to change direction while he's under there. :eek: I'm guessing this particular method of destroying enemy AFV's was not particularly popular amongst the troops. Regards Jim R. Reminds me of a quote I had read where Soviet tankers had said that the T-34 engine was very loud and usually drowned out all noises but they could still hear the screams of german soldiers when they would drive over their foxholes, rotate the tank and bury them alive. That technique for killing tanks was part of the infantry training for all armies and in some cases it did work, but for most infantryman it was a suicide mission. [ December 12, 2003, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: JC_Hare ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Folgore at El Alamein It seems there was a wide diversity in uniforms and helmets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Btw, is that a man from a tank unit in the background, wearing a black uniform...or?Judging from the uniform and what appears to be a fez i would guess that man is an officer of the Blackshirts (MSVN) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Botto: Do you know of good online sources for information about Italian battles in East/North Africa? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 see my sig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 12, 2003 Author Share Posted December 12, 2003 Would it be possible to change the headgear of the 42' Italian paratroopers to a sand texture helmet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Originally posted by Botto: Folgore at El Alamein It seems there was a wide diversity in uniforms and helmets This is the uniforms used for Italian paratroopers in CMAK. The guy in Botto's pic wears a collarless Sahariana and a shirt under it. The Italian paratroopers in CMAK don't wear the shirt, but that is not an error. They just feel it's too hot for wearing it a that mnoment Would it be possible to change the headgear of the 42' Italian paratroopers to a sand texture helmet?Unfortunately it wouldn't. IIRC I suggested it, but in the end they got the sun helmets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted December 12, 2003 Share Posted December 12, 2003 Why can't we have Pro-Axis Italians past 1943? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 I think those troops were mostly used for rearguard actions (fighting partisans or garrisoning the coast) or were stationed outside of Italy. IIRC the Nembo Paratrooper Battalion fought in Anzio with distinction, but it was a lone unit. As a rule rear guard units and antipartisan units have not been included in the game and most pro-axis Italian forces were that kind of units. Please take into account that I am not the OOB guy, so my answer should not be taken as a qualified one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 You are correct they had a largely anti-partisan role but they also had significant presence on the frontlines I'll try to get some more info later 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botto Posted December 13, 2003 Author Share Posted December 13, 2003 The only large offensive operation of the RSI Army against the Allies was a regimental-size tactical counterattack on the Appennines in the Winter of 1944 against US troops. The operartion was a full success, and the RSI troops proved themself very skilled and aggressive in this otherwise brief encounter.http://www.targheitaliane.it/rsi/rsi2.html The bulk of the Republican Navy was the "Divisione Decima", a huge organization born from the 10th MAS Flottilla, the very successful underwater raiding unit of the Italian Navy prior to the 1943 surrender. The morning after the Armistice, Prince Junio Valerio Borghese, a highly decorated and dashing submarine commander and commander of the 10th MAS Flottilla commandos, started gathering all the naval personel he could find in La Spezia inside the 10th MAS barracks. He then went to the local German command offering the services of his troops. The German were quite puzzled, but they accepted. In the following weeks, Borghese traveled all over Italy, recruiting hundereds of soldiers, until the 10th MAS was of divisional strenght. When the Italian Social Republic was formed, at attempt was made to disband the Decima (Decima = Tenth), but Borghese refused, threatening to shoot at sight anyone who dared come close to the Decima barracks. Thereafter, an arrangement was arrived at and the Decima officially became part of the Marina Nazionale Repubblicana (National Republican Navy). It remained out of the central command structure of the RSI - and out of the command structure of the Germans too. It was a truly independent force, fighting with the same reckless, devil-may-care attitude of a Renaissance "Condottiere" (commander of a "Condotta", i.e. = a merchenary unit)! The Decima fought as a ground unit against the US and British forces at the Anzio bridgehead, and then in North East Italy against Italian and Yugolsavian communist partisans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Furious Posted December 13, 2003 Share Posted December 13, 2003 It's strange, but i only ever seem to see the back of the Italians uniforms and they all look the same to me! - yella! Mwahahahahaha! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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