Kobal2 Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 It occured to me during my last battle that the HMGs and MMGs my schützen were using were the same : both were MG42, yet their firepower was absolutely not the same, with the HMG having triple the power of the MMG. I wondered why it was so : after all, it's still basically the same gun, so why the discrepancy ? Is it because the HMG is supposed to represent a handfull of MGs ? Or that the tripod makes it that much more precise than a soldier shoulder firing ? Or the additional crew capable of quickly changing overheated barrels instead of waiting for them to cool off ? Or just feeding ammo quicker ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 AIUI, the rationale is your last 4 points plus the bigger ammo load. i had no idea it was 3 times as much though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Leader Bonus? I recall one time that I had a squad of Russian Parras with a firepower of around 670 points (range <40m, on ambush)!! In fact all 3 squads had 670 points, all within command. They did have a very good leader with double combat bonus. I assume leaders affect support wepons as well but never noticed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Leaders definitely affect heavy MGs, maybe mortars and zooks too, but that I can't confirm, all I know is in the scenario "The worth of the PIAT" (from the Battery Commander, Batman and Cook scenario pack) I had a PIAT team within a +1 (or was it +2 ? I think it was +1) combat leader score three consecutive hits on the moving panzer's side, at 120+ meters - killing it unexpectedly (in fact, the first time the team shot I cursed at them for opening fire from so far away (I always forget those cover arcs). But then again, the combat leader bonus doesn't show up on the Unit Detail pannel, does it (which is where I saw the discrepancy, at 40 meters the MMG was something like 45-60, while the HMG was well over 170) ? I think it's only factored in the firepower as shown when you actually target the enemy, though I may be wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 I believe also that HMG mg42 had 'heavy' barrels. ?Increaseing accuracy and heat disipation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by 86smopuim: I believe also that HMG mg42 had 'heavy' barrels. ?Increaseing accuracy and heat disipation? If so, this is the first I've heard of it. However, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that in addition to the tripod, the HMG comes with optical sights. That shouldn't effect close in firepower much if at all, but beyond 200 meters it really makes a difference. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Grandpa only mentioned the MG42 had a tripod making it more effective. The fp increase is Kobal2s' last 3 points: - higher accuracy with tripod - faster change of barrel - faster reload plus - dedicated spotter with binoculars (LMG has binocs, too, but the 2nd man has several tasks) - the whole team is concentrating on one weapon. Spotting targets or supporting it. The LMG has only 2 men operatib it. Leader bonus or experience is not in the fp listing in the black unit info window. This fp is for regular crews. Leader bonus or experience modifiers are added on the field. Ie if you are targetting a unit with your team, you can see the actual fp on that distance (as well as the exposure). Compare that to the regular fp and you will notice differences: If you change the experience of the squad, you get higher fp. If you add a combat bonus, the experience is increased one level per bonus and the fp accordingly. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86smopuim Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 heres some references: various neat-o pics and mmg hmg info. mentions heavy barrel for tank, aa use. cant vouch for accuracy http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg32-e.htm http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg33-e.htm http://homepage.tinet.ie/~nightingale/mg42.html mentions `heavy barrel` in infantry role. cant vouch for accuracy http://cosmos.oninetspeed.pt/dak/dak/mg42.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Most important: With an LMG on a bipod you usually fire short bursts of 3-5 rounds, while with a HMG on tripod you fire much longer bursts of 20-50 rounds. the tripod enables the gunner to fire much longer bursts with much higher accuracy. The numbers are from my training with MG3, which is similar to the MG42 albeit with a slower ROF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 The first person who starts talking about 'running' is so going to get kicked in the fork... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Did I tell you how we used to run with an MG3 on tripod? Uphill? In deep snow? While singing "Lili Marlen"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by ParaBellum: Did I tell you how we used to run with an MG3 on tripod? Uphill? In deep snow? While singing "Lili Marlen"? Roight! Bloody Germans! Stand here and stand bow-legged, you (obscene gerund deleted) Jerry! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: [snips]Stand here and stand bow-legged, you (obscene gerund deleted) Jerry! Mr. Picky strongly suspects that what was deleted was really an obscene present participle, being used as an attributive adjective. The gerund is a verbal substantive, as any fule kno. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by John D Salt: Mr. Picky strongly suspects that what was deleted was really an obscene present participle, being used as an attributive adjective. The gerund is a verbal substantive, as any fule kno. All the best, John. Bloody English! You'd think they'd invented the language, the way they carry on! Stand there next to the German! Here comes Mr. Doc Marten! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_no_one Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 Originally posted by ParaBellum: Most important: With an LMG on a bipod you usually fire short bursts of 3-5 rounds, while with a HMG on tripod you fire much longer bursts of 20-50 rounds. the tripod enables the gunner to fire much longer bursts with much higher accuracy. The numbers are from my training with MG3, which is similar to the MG42 albeit with a slower ROF. To go along with this,you can see in this avi why you only fire short bursts from a mg42 on a bipod. MG42 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Another factor for the HMG was the crew carrying more ammo. That allows the gun to fire more rounds thus increasing the firepower. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 I thought about that, but that would be appropriately factored in the ammo score (which is higher, too), innit ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarker Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Ammo score is an abstract number. To use your MG42, each point of ammo in a LMG 42 could represent a burst of 5, MMG maybe 8-10, HMG 15-20. Or sumfink. On a side note, I remember watching a documentary on machine guns that showed the 42 fired from a tripod (with optics) and the mg was very steady while firing. The gunner kept tapping something on the side to 'nudge' the aim point in the desired direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Originally posted by Seanachai: The first person who starts talking about 'running' is so going to get kicked in the fork... Are concerns about diarrhea excepted? Just asking... :confused: Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobal2 Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 Do not associate diarrhea with machine gun concept, do not associate diarrhea with machine gun concept, do not... DANG. It is impossible to not think about a pink hippo after all. Méthode Coué my arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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