Squad Firepower Ratings - M1 Underrated?

[btm]

In looking over the infantry squad firepower ratings, it struck me that the M1 Garand seems to be vastly underrated.

For example:

The firepower ratings at 40m, 100m, 250m, and 500m for the following entities are:

'43 German "Jaeger" (10 man squad, with 8xK98, 1xMP40, and 1xMG42)

315, 119, 39, 20

'43 U.S. Rifle (12 man squad, with 10xM1, 1xM1903A4, 1xM1918A2)

170, 101, 49, 19

Now, according to most published sources, and my own experience, the K98k is good for 8-10 aimed rounds per minute (200 yard range).

In contrast, I can fire about 30 aimed rounds per minute with my M1 Garand (200 yard range).

[As an aside, Major G. H. Drewry of the U.S. Army Ordnance Department claimed the following in an official letter regarding the adoption of the M1 Garand:

"The rate of fire which can be attained is, of course, dependent to some extent upon the dexterity of the firer. The number of aimed shots at 200 yards for the average rifleman is approximately fifty per minute. The maximum for highly trained riflemen is approximately eighty per minute at this range, and at very close ranges, around fifty yards, a total of one hundred aimed shots are known to have been fired by an expert. Of course, such high rates of fire are not contemplated except in emergencies and they cannot be maintained over any considerable period of time, due to the overheating. An average rate of fire of around thirty shots per minute can, however, be maintained almost continuously without difficulty."

As I stated, my best to date is roughly 30 RPM. I have not been able to come near 50 RPM and stay 100% on target.

Nonetheless, it does call into question the in-game firepower ratings. Granted, the MG42 has a high sustainable rate of fire. But does it really compensate for the fact that the German squad has 8 men with a rifle that can at best achieve 1/3 the rate of fire of 10 G.I.'s in the U.S. squad?

I am open to debate on the subject, and would like to hear what others have to say.

[ January 07, 2004, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: btm ]

[Redwolf]

You should look at the individual FP rating per weapon, not the one for the whole squad.

The squad sums you look at are distored by the SMG in the German squad and the better LMG.

I really wonder why somebody has to point this out . You really shouldn't do that when accusing the game of having a problem.

[flamingknives]

I think that you've misquoted the firepower ratings.

A '43 fallschirmjager squad with 12 men, 4 MP40s, 2 MG42s and 6 K98s only(!) has ~280 fp at 40m range

8 k98s has a 40m firepower of 52, last time I looked.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by btm:

In looking over the infantry squad firepower ratings, it struck me that the M1 Garand seems to be vastly underrated.

For example:

The firepower ratings at 40m, 100m, 250m, and 500m for the following entities are:

'43 German "Jaeger" (10 man squad, with 8xK98, 1xMP40, and 1xMG42)

315, 119, 39, 20

Not quite sure what you are looking at, because the 'Jaeger' formations in the game do not have that organisation.

The German standard infantry squad, equipped as the one you give has:

124, 85, 48, 24

Bit of a difference.

The Jaeger 43 has 7 SMGs (MP40), 2 Rifles, and a lMG. The FP rating is as you gave. The key question then is whether the MP40 was better than the M1 in close combat situations.

[btm]

Redwolf-

1) Try reading my post again. The subject of my query is in fact the firepower rating of the squad as a whole, not the weapons independently.

2) I raised the issue as a matter of discussion, not to claim that there is necessarily a problem.

I really wonder why I have to point this out, as I think that I made this clear by my use of language in my original post.

----------------------------------------

Flamingknives and Andreas-

I am using the data from the "CM3INF.xls" spreadsheet (I am at work and do not have the game available). There are two entries for '43 Jaeger. They are, respectively:

43 Jaeger (10): 2xK98, 7xMP40, 1xMG34: 301,108,33,18

43 Jaeger (10): 8xK98, 1xMP40, 1xMG42: 315,119,39,20

If these are incorrect, then I will abandon the issue. Otherwise, I am still interested to hear the reasoning behind these ratings.

[Andreas]

The data from that sheet is incorrect.

Both Mike and I used the data from the game.

43 Jaeger (10): 2xK98, 7xMP40, 1xMG34: 315,119,39,20

43 Jaeger (10): 8xK98, 1xMP40, 1xMG42: Does not exist

This is probably:

43 Grenadier Squad (10): 8xK98, 1xMP40, 1xMG42: 138, 96, 54, 26

[ January 07, 2004, 12:14 PM: Message edited by: Andreas ]

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by btm:

I am using the data from the "CM3INF.xls" spreadsheet (I am at work and do not have the game available). There are two entries for '43 Jaeger. They are, respectively:

43 Jaeger (10): 2xK98, 7xMP40, 1xMG34: 301,108,33,18

43 Jaeger (10): 8xK98, 1xMP40, 1xMG42: 315,119,39,20

If these are incorrect, then I will abandon the issue. Otherwise, I am still interested to hear the reasoning behind these ratings.

The second listing looks way off. The '44 rifle squad in CMBO was similar (one less K98) and had a FP rating of 161 at 40 meters.

[btm]

Andreas-

Roger, thanks for the correction. I'll buy that the SMG's in the German squad provide superior firepower at 40m.

Sorry for the misconception.

[tar]

I think this is why it was suggested to look at the unit's statistics in the game itself. In addition to the squad totals, you also get separate line entries for each of the weapons that the squad carries.

That would give you a more direct comparison between the values BFC assigned to the respective rifles. I would check it myself right now, but I'm running OS X...