What am i missing?

[Troy Spiral]

Hello,

I've been playing CM on and off for a long time, and reading posts and reviews for it for most of that time.

Generally, i seem to "identify" with people that love CM, as well as other military srategy games and what im puzzled about is:

Right now i play on and off (and have done so for some time) basicly three military strat games. Namely Korsun Pocket (used to play the various Panzer Generals but KP is head and shoulders a better game),Close Combat IV and CM.

It seems that almost universally these games are well-rated, but that CM is always (at least on some level) rated "more higly" than either of the above.

Generally, i seem to favor Close Combat over CM becasue, frankly, all the LOS issues in CM bewilder me a bit in terms of stategy. Now i dont consider myself a wargaming novice, but it does seem to be very hard for me to use the "vertical" aspect of LOS in CM to full advantage. Im basicly scanning every single unit on the map, over and over again , trying to figure out who can see what, over and over every turn if i want to "do it right". To me while this is interesting it can get downright tedious.

I was wondering what peoples thoughts are on this "LOS complexity". Am i losing touch with my grognard roots and just dont "apreciate" the realism that comes along with this?

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Troy Spiral:

...all the LOS issues in CM bewilder me a bit in terms of stategy. Now i dont consider myself a wargaming novice, but it does seem to be very hard for me to use the "vertical" aspect of LOS in CM to full advantage. Im basicly scanning every single unit on the map, over and over again , trying to figure out who can see what, over and over every turn if i want to "do it right". To me while this is interesting it can get downright tedious.

I can sort of sympathize with you. When I played tactical boardgames of the Panzerblitz-Squad Leader type, checking the LOS constantly was a HUGE time consumer and with more than a few units in play became a major PITA. At least CM does it for you if you're too lazy to check it yourself.

Possibly you are a person that has trouble visualizing in three dimensions. (I am taking a WAG here based on your statement, "...it does seem to be very hard for me to use the "vertical" aspect of LOS in CM to full advantage.") Do you get down in view 1 and look around from your units' POV? It doesn't reproduce exactly what the computer sees, but it gets close enough to give you the idea most of the time. Then of course, there is the LOS tool, which so far as I know does report exactly what the computer sees. I use both pretty constantly in the orders phase.

Michael

[dugfromthearth]

I just do it by the seat of my pants.

which means I suck in NA where the only los blocker really is hills, but is fine for wooded scenarios and such.

and I rely heavily on the LOS tool.

[CMplayer]

So play on flat maps. No hills, no two story buildings. Suddenly all LOS becomes 2D.

[SteppenWolf]

The LOS issue is one reason why I wish that a future CM version would offer a view that looks like a good old 2D military map. As it would help with planing and would make things less micro management...

Another wish of cause would be that the HQ units become some smarts in regrouping their units and maybe for tank hq's to even maintain a formations...

Yes you can call me a dreamer *LOL* but actually a napoleonic wargame called Austerlitz does that with leaders. They're not really smart but the computer HQ's do resonable well if you give them simple orders like defend this piece etc... without them moving over wide areas of space.

[Code Talker]

I generally "walk" the ground first, then use the LOS tool to resolve any iffy issues I might have.

For me the 3D enviroment and the ability to get down in the dirt with my cyber-troops is what keeps me hooked on CM.

[BDW]

I think this was mentioned before, but I'd like to see a tool where you click on a unit and you see ALL possible LOS for that unit (rather than having to drag the LOS line all over the place). So the map would be shaded appropiately (as if the LOS line was dragged everywhere at once). I seem to remember the official response was negative on this idea for some reason.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Maybe that's something that could be done in the new engine.

[Sanok]

When I first began playing CMBO, I had a difficult time adjusting to the third dimension after playing 2D board games for years. However, the more I played, which is a lot, it just became natural. Something I do that helps, is click on a unit and press the N key. The red target line will show every opposing unit at which your unit can shoot. This is essentially the same as showing LOS. If I decide not to shoot at anything, I just cancel the red line and either move or hide the unit.

[-E]

Originally posted by BDW:

I think this was mentioned before, but I'd like to see a tool where you click on a unit and you see ALL possible LOS for that unit (rather than having to drag the LOS line all over the place). So the map would be shaded appropiately (as if the LOS line was dragged everywhere at once).

That would be an age-old tool that would be a greatly appreciated addition to CM. As would the converse of selecting just a point and seeing all the map areas that can see to it.