G-43

[PLM]

Why is the G-43 not in Combat Mission at all? I heard it was mostly used on the Eastern Front but im curious as to why its not in even CMBB. Was it a rare weapon??

[Pzman]

G-43, never heard of it. Are you thinking of the FG-42, which was made for German Airborne troops? If so I think the reason is due to its rareness.

[Metto]

G-43 is Gewehr 43, a semiautomatic rifle used be germans. I'd quess it was as rare as Stg44(which is ingame).

[Sergei]

G-43 was a semi-automatic rifle. According to this document there were almost 350.000 of the Gewehr and Karabiner manufactured during the war.

[Mattias]

It would seem about 425.000+ StG 44 and earlier variants were produced. Sergeis document states that some 525.000 automatic rifles (StG and variants not included) were produced. Fairly large numbers that is (to me, surprisingly high). Compared to that the FG 42 production of around 7000 units was minuscule.

Why isn't the G41/43's in the game? Well, my guess is that they were deemed not significant enough in a "actual TO&E presence to CM squad firepower" perspective. They could have been sprinkled out the same way as the SMG's in some units sometimes are captured PPSh and sometimes MP 40´s. In any case, had we been able do see what weapon the snipers were carrying we would probably see a few automatic rifles.

Or are they in the game somwhere?

M.

[Juju]

Hey PLM. There's a G-43 mod in my ModSlutSmack small arms pack which 'replaces' the Mauser. It's purely cosmetic, but if you want it, it's there!

[Denwad]

there were supposed to be 2 k/g-43 per squad, one scoped and one unscoped.

[thewood]

Ian Hogg's book on 20th Cent. Firearms had a listing for the G.43. I can't find it right now, but if memory serves me correctly, the G.43 never saw wide spread service due to its weight and tendency to jam. Soldiers found that the extra weight, jams, and maintenance weren't worth the extra firepower. If someone has the book they can validate or correct.

Edit:

Just found my book. I was thinking of the G.41. The 43 was a smaller version (carbine). It corrected most of the problems, but did not enter production until 1943. The 43 simplified manufacturing and completely changed the gas system. Reading between the lined, it seems economics played a significant role in limiting distribution of the 43 beyond specialist units and snipers.

[ July 20, 2004, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: thewood ]

[Mattias]

Originally posted by thewood:

Just found my book. I was thinking of the G.41. The 43 was a smaller version (carbine).

The G(Gewehr)43 was about the same size as the G.41, the K(Karbiner)43 that came into production in 1944 was a special, shortened, version.

M.

[Dandelion]

There are no G41/43 in the game (Mattias). At least not in CMAK. All rifles are 98k ("K98" with CM terminology). Including snipers.

Wood, in his book, Alex Buchner confirms that the G43 was mostly issued to sharpshooters ["meist als Spezialwaffen mit Zielfernrohr als Scharfschützengewehre ausgegeben"]. Would make sense considering the (surprisingly high) production total. Half a million would be enough to issue two to three weapons per field army infantry squad in the German army.

Doesn't say anything about Eastern Front priority - except maybe the note that the Soviet SLR were making themselves felt and made development of a German equivalent urgent.

He also states the G43 retained some of the problems of the G41, tho not the catastrophic gas recoil system, but primarily that of being brutally expensive to produce. He does not state specific production cost, only that it was completely out of proportion when compared to the 98k - which he states in another pragraph costed 65 RM per weapon. (Interestingly enough seeing as the StG44/MP43 costed 66 RM per weapon).

No figures on final production on Selbstladegewehr models here.

Some perspectives - more than 12 000 000 98k were produced, 1 500 000 by Mauser Oberndorf alone. 479 810 StG44/MP43 were produced, plus the 11 900 of the testbatch (which were of another model). 432 400 MG42 were produced, along with 388 697 MG34 (the MG42 was produced roughly the same length of time as the SLG models).

All in all - I'm with PLM. Why no SLR in the German squads? Firepower I mean, not graphics.

Cheeriup

Dandelion

[Dandelion]

...and isn't it time to raise the debate on smoke grenades again?

I say only 936.

That was the standard, regulation amount of smoke grenades (and "Kerzen") issued to each (German) infantry division, specifically to the Pionier battallion, used in combat by the personnel of the same or issued to line units, stocks replaced as consumed, and production went on to february 1945.

So why didn't we get any slg and smoke grenades?

Cheerio

Dandelion

[Denwad]

The G-41(M) was a total disaster, ~1200 were returned by the Wehrmacht as unservicable. The G-41(W) was much better weapon, and continued in use though the war and manufacture though 1944.

The G-41(W) was a much better made weapon then the G-43, it only suffered from the Bang gas system, which was prone to being clogged by dirt.

Perhaps in CMx2 we can have a percentage chance of either or both rifles showing up in a squad. Perhaps changing with the region's availablility (really low chance for G-41/43's in the lapland area).

[PLM]

different weapons really dont make much of an impression on a squads firepower. i played the "A Ranger's last stand" scenerio and i noticed each ranger squad had a Springfield with them along with the Garands and BAR. It'd have been better to just have another Garand because the game doesnt reflect the accuracy of the Springfield compared to the overall mass of firepower from the other weapons.

Maybe if they put the rifles as kind of toned-down sniper rifles?

When you hear a particular squad weapon firing does that simulate all weapons firing or just that one and if it is just that one, does that still give the overall firepower of the squad off?

rifles never feel very effective but i guess if you have a squad with 10 rifles and an SMG the rifles will still inflict most casualties at close quarters because of their number. it would be neat if they factored in accuracy of weapons and other things instead of just firepower but i guess there would be even more calculations to do and have a longer wait for bigger battles.

[ July 21, 2004, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: PLM ]

[Dandelion]

But the accuracy of the Springfield as compared to Garand is indeed simulated in CM. In terms of firepower. At maximum range, the Springfield has twice the firepower of the Garand. Conversely, it has only half the firepower at point blank range. Click the squad and look at the blackboard.

Squad weaponry makes a lot of difference in my experience. It would seem - to the layman - a not so complicated thing to do, to include the G43 in German squads.

A Wav file is tied to a certain unit type and will be played when a unit of that type is firing. Original Wav files contain relevant sounds - i.e. you will hear Garands firing when US squads are firing etc. The Wav is - like the graphics - detached from actual events. I.e it is a generic illustration, always the same, and how much each weapon fires in a Wav file has no bearing on what is actually happening.

But, since infantry fire is - I believe - calculated as per ASL (i.e. add all of the squads firepower able to reach target, and "roll dice" once to see effect), the Wav model seems reasonable.

Cheerio

Dandelion