Darkmath Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Again, there were a lot of topic complaining about the high jam frequency of water cooled MG such as M1917 or Vickers. When it comes to explain why those MG jam as much as air cooled in CM , I don't have a complete answer. So, are there any reasons which explain the rate of jam of those MG in CMx1 series? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 I'm probably wrong on this, but wasn't the water jacket meant to cool the barrel? Vickers MG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 Yes, so the Vickers barrel is less likely to overheat, especially with high atmospheric temperature. Some tests in CM sho that a vickers jam as much as MG42, which is air cooled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 But isn't MG jamming a problem with the firing mechanism, and seperate from barrel overheating? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted July 30, 2006 Author Share Posted July 30, 2006 I read that the jam state in CM includes mechanic and overheating problem. But the Vickers was appreciated by its robust mechanism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 Jams can be caused by ammo, firing mechanism, gunner error, etc. Water cooling gets rid of one of the reasons for stoppage but not all of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Darkmath, Unless there was some problem with Vickers MGs in the desert of which I'm unaware, IMO, the weapons got screwed, seeing as how they were renowned for reliability. In WW I, twelve fired continuously for 48 hours, with only a few stoppages, in order to deny an important piece of ground to the Germans. Of course, they went through lots of water and ammo! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Could it be that what is reported in the game as a jam would be in reality a pause to load a fresh ammo belt? Or is the pause too long for that to be a plausible explanation? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 Sometime, I heard someone from a MG crew shouting "Reload!" while the ammo point didn't state as JAM. From tests made by some ppl on this board, I would say, the jamming frequency is the same for all MG. If that so,there is not different jamming algorithm in the BTS's coding. However, anyone notice difference between water cooled and air cooled MGs in the game? [ July 31, 2006, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Darkmath ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 Yeh, I recently played my first campaign in awhile and I was noticing the water-cooled MGs were jamming just as often as the air-cooled, myself. One gamey problem has been offset by a gamey benefit, though. I noticed the water-cooled 7.62mm mg far outranged the air-cooled 7.62mm mg. Don't know if there's a reason for this - maybe the heavy tripod it fires from. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 Often, I saw MG42 which it takes 2 turns to unjam. A jam represent a barrel change due to overheating. But you need 5-10 sec. to change a MG42 barrel, not 1 min. or even 2min. ! Even for a M1919, i don't think 2 min. is needed to change a barrel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-warfare Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Maybe it takes into account the mg crew burning their fingers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 lol They carry too much weight so gloves are not issued to them . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Jamming in CM does not represent a barrel change. Barrel changing is part of the normal sustained firing procedure on an MG42, and is taken into account in the firepower rating. Jamming represents something bad and unplanned happening to the MG; there are may possible problems that can happen with the feed mechanism, the recoil mechanism, etc. . . some of these can take quite a long time to clear. Since certain types of jams, such as a stuck cartride in the chamber, could be solved (at least temporarily) by simply changing the barrel You could reaonably argue that a higher proportion of jams on an MG which has a QCB, like the MG42, should be cleared quickly. But even with the QCB, there are still other types of jams that would take a while to clear. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 ... even for the robust Vicker? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 The Vickers may be "robust" but there are any number of factors that might cause it to stop firing for a minute - which is somethign quite differnet from it breaking. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 FWIW, I agree, Jam rates should probably be lower for Water-cooled MGs like the Vickers, and MGs that have a QCB, like the MG42. Just pointing out that no MG is immune to jamming. The Vickers can jam, and jam bad. So can the MG42. Maybe they're somewhat less likely to do so than most other MGs, but there sholuld aways be some chance of a nasty ass jam, that takes several minutes to clear. Honestly, my bigger complaint is that, when the MG jams, if you have a full MG team (4-6 men), the 2-5 men *not* working to clear the jam, somehow forget that they all have rifles, and just sit there and watch the gunner try to clear the jam. . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 They don't want to rub in the fact that they can shoot and he can't. Bad for morale. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 I don't think there's any case for them to have adifferent jam rate - heavy build means things don't break as often - a rare occurrence anyway - and water cooling is there instead of quick-change barrels - both achieve the same thing. for every case of Vickers firing for 245 hours in WW1 there's also a case of a section of Horchkiss doing somethign similar with infantry sitting around refilling their strips - I've got the account somewhere at home if ppl want to read it...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 It seems BTS keeps a generic jam rate fr all MG. I don't understand why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by Darkmath: It seems BTS keeps a generic jam rate fr all MG. I don't understand why. Well, it's easy, that's why. And they don't have an endless stream of pseudo-grogs saying things like "Oh, the Brengewher Mk 5b.2 should have jam rate of 36.5%, not 37.2%. This game totally sux0r2!!!11!!one1! YOU'VE RUINED MY LIFE!!!11!1!oneoneone!!!" Or sumfink. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: The Vickers may be "robust" but there are any number of factors that might cause it to stop firing for a minute - which is somethign quite differnet from it breaking. Exactly right. The type of barrel should have little to do with it, though the JAM in CM may actually represent a pause to change barrels or some other non-jam incident which requires a pause in order to fix. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted August 3, 2006 Share Posted August 3, 2006 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: The Vickers may be "robust" but there are any number of factors that might cause it to stop firing for a minute - which is somethign quite differnet from it breaking. Exactly right. The type of barrel should have little to do with it, though the JAM in CM may actually represent a pause to change barrels or some other non-jam incident which requires a pause in order to fix. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Originally posted by JonS: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Darkmath: It seems BTS keeps a generic jam rate fr all MG. I don't understand why. Well, it's easy, that's why. And they don't have an endless stream of pseudo-grogs saying things like "Oh, the Brengewher Mk 5b.2 should have jam rate of 36.5%, not 37.2%. This game totally sux0r2!!!11!!one1! YOU'VE RUINED MY LIFE!!!11!1!oneoneone!!!" Or sumfink. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: 47.35% of statistics are made up on the spot. That's a dirty lie! It's only 39.76%. The rest of them are scientifically prepared beforehand by throwing darts at a chart. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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