Laptop/Video card recommendation? (PC)

[GreenAsJade]

In a recent post (reasonably on-topic ) I asked about specs required for a laptop to play CMx2.

I wonder if you could indulge me with a broader question: if I am buying a laptop now (which is when I have to do it) and it has to be able to play CM as well as other boring things like email, powerpoint etc, what would anyone recommend?

What, of the parameters that I can spend more and more money on (like memory, disk, video memory etc) really are worth the money?

What video card makes sense? (At the moment I am looking at Dell, which seems to mean I have a choice of GeForce or ATI...)

Thanks for any insight!

GaJ.

[ January 25, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: GreenAsJade ]

[Schrullenhaft]

Getting the right mix of performance for the right price is a bit tricky. Generally any configuration that works good for games will probably excel at almost everything else you throw at it.

Regarding laptops and gaming, I'd suggest getting a laptop that has dedicated video memory (VRAM). This can be a bit confusing since some chipsets can support both dedicated memory and 'shared memory' configurations. 'Shared memory' utilizes a chunk of your system memory (anywhwere from 4Mb to 128Mb, depending on your total memory and the chipset) to use as video memory. This is a measure done for economy reasons. It's cheaper (and somewhat more 'power efficient') to utilize a standard system memory DIMM than to get high-speed, dedicated DDR memory for the video. But this type of choice will cost you performance in a video game.

Most name-brand laptops offer ATI and NVidia as the video chipset. There are however some models that use other chipsets (especially among more generic clones) such as Intel, Trident, SiS, S3/VIA and possibly some others. These probably won't perform as well (and often they are 'shared memory' configurations anyway) and may have far fewer driver updates that are harder to get a hold of.

If the videochip isn't mentioned in the 'specs', then there is a very high likelihood that it is an integrated/'shared memory' chipset with marginal gaming performance. Often for name-brand laptops using Intel CPUs it may be an integrated Intel video chip (830, 852 or 855) that utilizes shared memory.

Generally nicer video chipsets are going to be offered with higher end laptops; making it a bit harder to get particular options at a more attractive price (an advantage of desktops).

Another large factor in a laptop's price is the LCD display. Size doesn't always indicate quality. While almost everything out there is now 'active matrix', which is a huge improvement over 'passive' designs of the past that were not bright enough (and other 'defects'), there can be varying quality to them. I don't have any concrete suggestions as to which are better models. Small details can be a big issue to some people (and these are the types of details you won't normally find in 'tech specs').

CPU-wise, the Celerons are at a good price point for laptops, but their performance is definitely behind the full-fledged P4's. However for a number of people, upgrading to a full P4 may put them in a model that is out of their price range. For many desktop ('productivity') apps, a P4-based Celeron (the P3-based models I wouldn't recommend, though they shouldn't really be offered anymore) has plenty of power and many people would be a bit pressed to distinguish the difference between a Celeron and a full P4. In games however (and other 'CPU-intensive' apps), there can be differences that are noticeable.

Another 'spec' associated with the CPU is called the Front Side Bus (FSB) which you may hear quoted as 400MHz, 533MHz or 800MHz when it comes to Intel P4-based CPUs. This is the clock frequency that the memory and the CPU are driven by (although in the case of the Intel CPUs, divide by 4 to get the actual frequency used). Celerons are almost all 400MHz (that may change in the future). 533MHz and 800MHz are higher performing P4's. Hyperthreading is also something you'll hear mentioned with P4's. This only exists on the 800MHz P4's and basically helps when it comes to multitasking. I'm not sure how much it may help with gaming (other than running something in the background). Some games can have support for 'multiple CPUs' and Hyperthreading might get used in such situations, but possibly only to limited effect (it's not really two CPUs).

AMD is also a good CPU choice, but it is offered in very few name-brand laptops. AMD Desktop CPUs have generally been slightly better performers for gaming than the equivalent Intel CPU, but there can be a lot of variables to that.

Regarding memory. I'd say get 512Mb and you should generally be fine. That's enough for WinXP and almost any game or desktop ('productivity') app out there. You'll see some desktop (and laptop) configurations going to 1Gb or more, but generally that isn't necessary and will only offer better performance for those people who run a lot of programs simultaneously or programs that require a lot of memory (such as image editing programs, etc.). I don't know what CMx2's memory requirements or 'desired configurations' will be, but it will probably require a bit more memory than the current generation does now. So it's possible that 1Gb may allow you to play larger battles a little more smoothly in the future (assuming your video can keep up). One word of warning, some manufacturers will fill up your memory sockets with certain memory configurations rather than putting in 'higher-density' memory (which utilizes less sockets). It's cheaper for them to do this, but upgrading to more memory may mean pulling out some of that memory to make room for a new memory module. This can result in a little less memory final memory in the upgrade than you may have expected.

Other features you may see touted in laptops are the wireless functionality (Centrino - which is 11Mb networking, 802.11b standard), which may or may not be useful to you (it eats up battery power much quicker when you use it, but it can be handy at certain times). 'Widescreen' LCD displays - which probably only look good if you're watching a DVD, but may not look as good for games (which may either 'crop' the screen or look stretched). CDRW/DVD players - DVD is probably good to have just for it's data capacity (or watching a movie), while CDRW is probably handy if you have a lot of data on your laptop you need to archive every so often or your laptop is a 'desktop replacement'.

Now, trying to balance this all out. It really depends on what your budget is and how important gaming performance is to you. A GeForce FX or ATI Radeon 9000 series chipset with dedicated video memory (64Mb) is probably one place to start (which may also lock you into more expensive models). If possible upgrade to something above the GeForce FX Go 5200 or ATI Radeon 9000/9100 since these will either not support DirectX 9 or be marginal performers graphically. The ATI Radeon 7000 series will not support DirectX 9 (lighting effects). If you can match on of the better video systems with a less expensive CPU such as a Celeron, then it may be worth it. The difference in price between a Celeron and P4 system may be worth the sacrifice in performance in CM (which will exist). 512Mb of memory should be a good recommendation, so I'd suggest upgrading to that amount. Most laptop hard drives should be OK. Laptops generally have slower (and more energy-conscious) hard drives than desktops, so there may not be a whole lot of selection here other than size. If 7200RPM drives are offered they'll bring the hard disk performance closer to a desktop, but their downside may result in a (marginally) heavier laptop with less battery performance or just a hotter laptop (if the cooling isn't sufficient). Hard drive speed can help with the load speed of CM (and other applications).

[ January 26, 2004, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[kgsan]

Schrullenhaft,

I am looking into getting a laptop computer and found your above advice helpful. I also saw another comment by you in another thread in which, if I understood it properly, you were saying that you cannot upgrade the video memory card in a laptop computer. Were you referring to those that do not have dedicated video card, or are there issues generally that make it difficult or impossible to replace the video card which comes with the computer. The reason I am asking is that, if replaceable, I am inclined to buy laptop from Dell (or whoever) with cheaper card, with eye to replacing it with better card down the road. I did this with my desktop computer and it worked fine, getting me better video card at lower price, and wanted to know if this is a practicable option with a laptop.

Thanks in advance,

kgsan

[Schrullenhaft]

Laptops have their graphics chipsets soldered into the 'mainboard' and thus aren't upgradeable without replacing the mainboard (a very expensive option - which rarely exists). The only 'upgrade' you can get is if your laptop's video system utilizes shared memory and you increase that setting in the BIOS to its maximum. Video systems with dedicated VRAM are almost always un-upgradeable (in terms of video memory).

There was one laptop out there that had the video system on a replaceable card assembly. I don't know what model or manufacturer it was and what the selection of video chips were. It was a semi-proprietary standard, so there's no choice of videocards other than what that manufacturer offered.

Perhaps in the future laptop manufacturers may decide on a standard for replaceable video systems in laptops. For now the video specs of a laptop are what you'll have for the rest of that laptop's life.

[ May 28, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Hpt. Lisse]

Note that, if indeed CMX2 is being encoded in OpenGL instead of DirectX, then you'll want to lean towards an Nvidia video chip, which runs OpenGL apps better than ATI's...

[kgsan]

Schrullenhaft & Hpt. Lisse,

Thanks for the advice. Glad to learn this before making a purchase.

Regards,

kgsan