Blatant Disregard of Covered-Arc Order

[von Lucke]

First pic shows jeep-MG with very narrow covered-arc and red targeting line. Yet notice that tracers from said jeep-MG are flying off at a 70% angle to the indicated target.

Same pic, top down angle, shows indicated and actual LOF a bit better. This went on the entire turn.

For some reason the TacAI seemed to think that an infantry squad with it's face in the mud was more of a threat than a closer squad that was actually firing at it?

[Heinzi]

Mmmm maybe the cover arc doesnt work for flexible mounted mgs?

[Beta1]

I know this is going to sound like a daft question but are you sure the tracers are out going rather than incoming?

[MAsta_KFC]

I agree with Beta1. They look like coming towards the jeep rather than going out. Note the direction of the 'teardrop'

[Ant]

That's one of the reasons I use tracer mods to differentiate between axis and allied tracer, so you can tell incoming from outgoing. Not entirely unrealistic either.

[Heinzi]

The tracers are outgoing. You can see that, because they are highlighted at the tip.

[GoofyStance]

I suspect that the occasional disregarding of new or standing orders by individual units in CM is built into the game. Just last night, I was playing the Axis side in a CMAK QB, and had a quad-20mm flak gun in a palm grove. It started firing on an infantry squad some 400m away, so the next turn I ordered it to "Cancel Target" and to "Hide" so as not to give itself away too early. The flak gun crew proceeded to disregard those orders and to resume firing on the infantry squad, even though no one was firing at them. This flipping of the bird at my constantly renewed Cease-and-Hide orders went on for two more turns until the flak gun was creamed by arty. Oh, and the flak crew was "Regular"; I wonder if experience level has an effect on the unit's likelihood to obey orders?

[Ansbach]

Goofy is correct. It's funny because I had this exact same question yesterday, but before I asked on the forum I thought I would check the rulebook (don't feel bad - I printed out all 200+ pages and put them in a binder with sheet protectors )

Under The Combat - Cover Arcs:

How well your units stick to the assigned zones depends on their experience, whether they are in command, and their commander's stealh skill.

I have a Newbie question though: why would you put such a narrow cover arc over a single unit like that with your jeep, instead of just targeting them?

[ February 11, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Ansbach ]

[xerxes]

From what I've seen all units have a "survive" instinct. If something really dangerous to them appears, they'll engage it no matter what orders youi've given them. In the same way, if dangerous but virtually unkillable afv appears, your units will get the h@ll out of dodge, no matter what you tell them to do.

Survival.

[Ansbach]

You are right of course Xerxes, but I think his whole point was that in this case the jeep was not firing at the more threatening target and he didn't know why...

[von Lucke]

In order (sort of):

Yes, covered arc normally works for Jeep-MG. Had been working several turns prior.

Yes, those tracers are out-going (pointy end toward enemy).

Yes, the TacAI "survival instinct" will, on occassion, cause it to ignore orders (including firing outside of covered arcs) and target other things. But, when it does this, the red targeting line will point to the new target (this is not the case here). It is also not the case that the new target is more of a threat than the one that it should be targeting. Also, if the new target is radically outside the covered arc, the covered arc itself is cancelled by the TacAI (also not happening here).

As for the narrow cover arc: I didn't want the jeep to fire at anything but that squad straight ahead (it's in a dead zone to other units on the right, which happen to be blasting the same units that the jeep feels the need to shoot at).

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by von Lucke:

Yes, the TacAI "survival instinct" will, on occassion, cause it to ignore orders (including firing outside of covered arcs) and target other things. But, when it does this, the red targeting line will point to the new target (this is not the case here). It is also not the case that the new target is more of a threat than the one that it should be targeting. Also, if the new target is radically outside the covered arc, the covered arc itself is cancelled by the TacAI (also not happening here).

I've seen numerous cases where a vehicle will fire outside of its arc and still retain the arc. In those cases the vehicle is trying to momentarily supress a unit on the flank, which is why the arc is not cancelled and no red targetting line appears. It this flank threat develops into something more serious then it will cancel the arc and a target line will appear.

[Thermopylae]

Maybe PFC Rock just didn't feel like it, and his good buddy/driver, Cpl. Duffy, didn't want to ream him out.

[Snow Leopard]

Had you read Combat Mission Strategy Guide yet? Need HDQ to be near to control someone's cover arc also depend on level of skill, If green then will open fire without obey HDQ's order.

[Richie]

To me, that jeep doesn't appear to be overly threatened by the enemy squad shooting at it. Maybe, when the threat becomes substantial enough and it is exposed enough, then it will shoot 'outside the CA' that has been specifically appointed as the area where 'you wanna kill as many dudes as possible'. After all, if you are 'killin' some dudes real good', why shoot someone else if they ain't hurting you?

Kill, Kill, Kill. Thrill, Thrill, Thrill; a song by... 'The Painter's and Docker's'

[Snow Leopard]

Originally posted by Richie:

To me, that jeep doesn't appear to be overly threatened by the enemy squad shooting at it. Maybe, when the threat becomes substantial enough and it is exposed enough, then it will shoot 'outside the CA' that has been specifically appointed as the area where 'you wanna kill as many dudes as possible'. After all, if you are 'killin' some dudes real good', why shoot someone else if they ain't hurting you?

Kill, Kill, Kill. Thrill, Thrill, Thrill; a song by... 'The Painter's and Docker's'

Doesn't matter if feel threat, Jeep could be happy-trigger. Yes, It is like Buck Fever (American's Lingo)