Biltong's Campaign Rules

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

At this pace pace it will take 758,000 hours to complete the war!!!! I've got a feeling I'll never get that far...............

But this frustration lies in the fact that these rules make the game so much more interesting.

Too bad there just isn't enough time.

Hi Snowbart,

With CMAK on the horison, some of you might want to speed things up a bit.

I've just added the following to Note 1 Date (Both 41 & 42)

If you want to play a Quick Campaign - add 2 to the die-roll.

If you want to play a Super-Quick Campaign - add 4 to the die-roll.

:cool:

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

Hey Seahawk,

Cool, I will wait for the official patch then.

What the heck is Kiev Urban Chaos?

Just finished battle #2 in the campaign, thanks in much to your assistance. Total victory the first battle, minor victory the second.....and man was it tough. But even so most of my squads have gained experience, with only one squad at 9 pts for exp....now just a lowly green unit

I think I'm getting the hang of this: it doesn't take 4 hrs to set the next battle up now

Happy Easter,

Snowbart

Happy Easter you all guys.

Snowbart: Kiev Urban Chaos is the 4th battle of the 5-battle Kiev historical pack of the BCR Map Add-ons.

These are a large set of battles to be used instead of the ones generated by the QB engine.

Historical battle packs are to be used when the Campaign brings you close to the actual dates, then you may *enter* an historical pack and fight those on. Parameters are for the most set and fixed for those battles.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

At this pace pace it will take 758,000 hours to complete the war!!!! I've got a feeling I'll never get that far...............

But this frustration lies in the fact that these rules make the game so much more interesting.

Too bad there just isn't enough time.

Rules (and BiltAid) take into account that initial invasions meant lots of battles in few days. After the initial madness things get more relaxed and battles get more spaced than in the beginning days.

[Biltong]

I NEED MORE MAPS!!

The patch should be out within a week or 2 and soon thereafter I want to bring out the latest updates for 41 and 42 with a new map pack, if possible.

If you have some maps you would like to submit, post here or mail me.

Biltong

[Snowbart]

Thanks Biltong and Seahawk. I think I will use the new rule for the fast/superfast campaign. That way I might realistically make it to '42 and beyond.

The map pack's are great too...been using them according to map size, tree coverage, hilliness, etc., and they beat the pants off QB generated maps!

Seahawk, sounds like Kiev is gonna be sweet!

Biltong, the only version of the Battle Group sheet I found was at Scooby's site and they're in pdf format. I wanted to import the BG sheet into excel and add a few lines for my attached units, but of course i can't import a pdf file into excel. Any suggestions?

[Schoerner]

Is there a way to import units only - without importing a map? (because, it would be more comfortable, if the Battle-Group is set up once and saved with all the unit's settings, instead of making the changes everytime after importing a premade map).

BTW: soon i'll start my third BiltAid battle and it's amazing, too, what kind of battles appear! Now I'm very interested what will happen in a 3000pts assault with 2000 points air support :eek: and weak friendly ground units... What makes me a bit nervous is, that the experience of the ordered air-support units is only 'green'...)

[ April 20, 2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[Lane]

Hi BCR players,

I am using Biltaid 1.0 Default Battle group

1941 Campaign I am on Battle 13 Aug 19,1941

a ME Battle.I still am confused on how to spend

my task force points? rolled up 75 points for

Inf&support on my QB task force Gen I have Recon

41 PLTs but can't buy any for 75 points?

Veh can spend 140 points spent 122 points 2 PSW221 2 PSW223. Armor can spend 150 points got

me a PZ111H for 100 points ART allowed 150 spend

148 for a 105mm spotter. Have lots points left

can spend 1250 What can I do with remaing points? Using OLD Dog's map OD Farm3 with Battle

group 653 points Panzer rife PLTs with basic tanks with exp set and imported to map.

Could some body help me understand how to spend

my taks force points I am using the new Ver 103c

patch Still don't known how to set ammo settings

Sorry if my spelling is messed up

Regards

Lane

[Schoerner]

Lane,

maybe i can help you (Biltong and Seahawk, or anyone else that finds a mistake within the explanation, please correct me!):

Note 12 of BCRs explains the purchaing of troops (tip: download the rules and create an alias to them in your CM-startmenu folder), but IMO not clear enough, so i'll try to explain it with my own words (a bit general for beginners, too):

1. you create a QB (with the exact parameters given by BiltAid/BCR) and let the computer choose your units automatically from within that parameters.

2. Write all the available units down (Infantry: be sure to find out, if whole Battaillons, Companies or only independent Platoons, were bought).

Mortars, MGs or other support units only count as individuals (and therefore are allowed to be bought individually, later), if they are 'independent' - means: not part of a platoon, company or battaillon.

This QB will NOT be played. It's just for the reason, that the computer picks those units, being available to support your 'Battle Group'.

Discard this QB, after you have written down the units.

2. you create a second QB. The one, that will be played.

3. buy units only, that were bought by the AI in the 'Task Force QB' (the ones, you already had written down).

First you have to spend your points on those units, that were bought by the AI in the previously made 'Task Force QB'.

Take care, not to exceed the maximum points BiltAid/BCR gave you for each category.

4. You are not allowed to break formations, if you have to less pts to buy the whole unit organization.

I.e. you have a Battaillon of 41ers Schützen available from the 'Task Force QB' but you have to less points to buy it for the real battle.

But you have points left:

5. (BCRs Note 12 comes into play):

because you have to less points to order a unit from the given (and hopefully written down) Task Force units/organizations, you are allowed to buy any unit from within that category - BUT since this QB is set to 'unrestricted' units, make sure, that the cheaper unit you're going to buy was at all available to the computer when it determinded the 'Task Force' automatically, with the specific settings for unit type given by BiltAid/BCR.

Example 1:

You have to less points to buy the Infantry Battailon, the AI bought for you in the previously made 'Task Force QB'.

Note12:

Now you are allowed to buy any unit that was available, but only for that unit-force-mix (i.e. Infantry only) and division type given by BCR/BiltAid.

Say an Infantry Battailon. It also consisted of a Company of AT/Inf Guns.

But: this specific support Company only was available for Battailons and is not 'buyable' as itself and therefore not listed on on the purchaseable unit-list.

Bad Luck. Either you can buy the Bataillon to get it, or forget about it.

You are not allowed to break the Battaillon and buy the units seperately to create a company/platoon that fits to your needs/wishes.

Example 2:

BiltAid/BCR determinded, say 250 pts for armor AND

BildAid/BCR determinded that the upcoming battle will be Infantry only and the division type is Infantry.

You let the computer buy the Task Force units and write them down.

It will buy no tanks or vehicles, because they are simply not available for that type of battle.

Now, in the unrestricted setup for the real battle, you buy what you want/can from the list of the offered Task Force units.

But there is no armor to choose from, but you have 250pts to spend... - theoretically - if support armor would be available at all from the Division...

Note 12 comes into play, again (you have points left to spend, but no Task Force units on your written down availability list, that are cheap enough or even available):

you are allowed to purchase whatever you want, but only from within the category (ofcourse) and only units, that were available to the computer when it determinded the Task Force units, too.

This means: infantry only -> no vehicles or armor was available when the computer generated the supporting Task Force units -> you are not allowed to buy armor now, too (remember: you're still stuck to an 'Infantry only' battle but for generating the real battle with your core 'Battle Force' and the appropriate points for each category, it is simply set to 'unrestricted' - but only to have enough freedom to buy the allowed units).

That's war.

Bad luck.

Hope that was correct and a little help.

Schoerner

[ April 21, 2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Schoerner ]

[hobo]

BCR Fans - I have some modifications to HQ unit rules that I thought I would pass on for discussion.

I believe the experience of the platoon HQ is 99% dependent on the HQ leader. Thus, I cannot believe they would lose experience if a member that is not the leader is lost. To account for this using Biltaid, I calculate if the HQ leader is lost in combat using straight percentages (1 in 4 chance if a platoon HQ unit loses a man). If the leader is lost, I assume the whole unit is lost when entering in the data using Biltaid (one problem w/ this is emergency reorganizations are a little off). If the leader survives, I enter no lost men in Biltaid.

If I lose the Company commander, I pick one of the platoon commanders to take his place and reduce his experience level by one. I then generate a new platoon HQ unit to repace the one just promoted.

Also, I randomly add one leadership trait everytime a HQ unit gains experience.

Any thoughts on this system?

Regards,

Hobo

While this sounds silly, it has a big impact on the game play. I just lost two regular platoon leaders in the last battle. Both of them with tons of leader traits. I now have two of my platoon led by green LTs each with less traits than their predicessors.

[Biltong]

Hi Lane, Schroener.

I've just updated the rules to make that clearer.

Schroener, you are close... Only mistake is that you can buy individual units out of a larger organization, such as a Battalion. The idea here is not to restrict you, but to offer a changing variety of units for the Task Forces to experience. Oh - and also note the section in italics - if you have points left, but nothing was generated in that category, you can choose what you want from the normal QB Purchase List.

Here's the latest version (V2.3 - to be released soon) of that section of Rule 12:

Buy the Task Force Units out of the Task Force Offerings generated by the Auto QB (49). Do not exceed the points generated in the sections (29 to 35) for each category, but buy as many Task Force Offerings as you can.

You may buy individual units within an organization, such as a Company or Battalion.

If you have points left after buying all the Task Force Offerings in a category or if you have points left, but not enough to buy a specific unit, you can choose what you want to buy from the normal QB Unit Purchase List (within that category only) until you have used up the purchase points for that category.

As an example, for a battle in August 1941, (49) generated three 81mm mortar spotters. You rolled 'Regular' quality for your Task Force units, and have 250 points for Artillery support.

Since 'Regular' 81mm mortar spotters start at 93 points, you buy two. You do NOT have enough points remaining to purchase the last generated 81mm spotter.

You may now use your remaining points in that category for any available Artillery unit in the Unit Purchase List (except air units of course).

You could get a 75mm spotter for 39 points (leaving 25 points for spending). Since no Artillery unit costs 25 points or less, you lose those points.

If you have points left in a category and wish to buy from the normal QB unit list, you are not allowed to change Nation, Division or Experience…

If you have points left in a category and there are no units on offer in the normal QB list for that Nat/Div/Exp. - Tough luck - you lose the points.

[ April 21, 2003, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[hobo]

Rules Gurus -

I just got 160 points for attached units. Can I use this to buy more than one unit? For some reason I thought you could only aquire only one unit per battle but I cannot find that rule. Assuming you can only buy one unit, since there isn't any support or vehicle units that costs that much, do the extra points carry to the next battle?

Thanks,

Hobo

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Snowbart:

...

Biltong, the only version of the Battle Group sheet I found was at Scooby's site and they're in pdf format. I wanted to import the BG sheet into excel and add a few lines for my attached units, but of course i can't import a pdf file into excel. Any suggestions?

Just did a test download from SuprS's site - It's all there. Have a look at the bottom of the Excel sheet(BCR rules) - the different tabs open up the different sheets: Favor, Battlegroup etc

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Biltong,

is the v2.3 going to change rolls and modifiers? That is, is there any significant change for BiltAid?

Currently the one missing rule is the CO death section. BiltAid does not compute whether the CO is dead at all.

Concernign the suggestion on HQ experience. The HQ team (4 men) would be affected by the very fact of losing one or more men. The cohesive command experience would be reduced somewhat as the replacement(s) would have to integrate the command line. Experience should be lowered when losing even a single man. Maybe HQ (treated as for CO team) could see lesser experience loss if the killed/wounded man was not the leader after all (that is treat them similar to the CO unit) and suffer less experience loss wrt to other regular units if the roll determines the leader is still alive. One could argue that an officer might better integrate his HQ unit - hence be less of a penalty - than a platoon seeing 25% of its force replaced.

Biltong? I would indeed favor HQs and CO suffer a bit less from man loss (experience-wise) then regular units.

Your say? (and others of course)

Anyway, although via BiltAid rules can be many and complex, one has to think as well of players using pencil and paper. Too many rules/options/exceptions might turn BCR impossible to play without BiltAid.

[ April 21, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by hobo:

Rules Gurus -

I just got 160 points for attached units. Can I use this to buy more than one unit? For some reason I thought you could only aquire only one unit per battle but I cannot find that rule. Assuming you can only buy one unit, since there isn't any support or vehicle units that costs that much, do the extra points carry to the next battle?

Thanks,

Hobo

Up to three attached units. After that points may be used to upgrade or get better units.

[hobo]

Seahawk - Thanks. The only problem is that Biltaid seems to allow only one unit per battle. Am I doing something wrong?

Hobo

[hobo]

What exactly do the men attached to HQ units actually do? I assume most of them are runners and maybe communications guys. For the command HQ I would assume one or two of them are G2 and G4 guys. Anybody know for sure?

Hobo

[hobo]

Seahawk - One very small feature request for V2.3. Could you please include the version number somewhere in the program. I am not sure if I am using the new or old version.

Thanks for all your support of BCR.

Regards,

Chris

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Another point is:

since the patch makes now the Editor fully usable there could be special treatment for HQ teams concerning their traits for example.

The Editor allows for a fine tracking of various teams experience (with HQ it was all averaged out) hence we could think of adding traits and/or improving them with experience.

Hail to the Editor!

PS

unfortunately there is no way to import units without a map. Would be nice though. Can't do it now but could that be to have a dummy map being there in order to hold the Battle Group then load it in the Editor, change the map and generating the battle? This way the dummy map could be re-used time and again just to deal with the Battle Group. Anyone willing to try that and report?

[ April 21, 2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by hobo:

Seahawk - One very small feature request for V2.3. Could you please include the version number somewhere in the program. I am not sure if I am using the new or old version.

Thanks for all your support of BCR.

Regards,

Chris

K, takes note of that. For the time being 1.0.3 is the first self-contained version (ie the first that can start with:

java -jar <file>

[ April 21, 2003, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Seahawk-vfa201 ]

[Schoerner]

Originally posted by Biltong:

[QB]

Schroener, you are close... Only mistake is that you can buy individual units out of a larger organization, such as a Battalion.

Just for my clarification:

so if the computer bought a Battailon and i don't have enough points to buy it, i'm allowed to buy the exact single Company or Platoon being part of this Battaillon, right?

Oh - and also note the section in italics - if you have points left, but nothing was generated in that category, you can choose what you want from the normal QB Purchase List.

'normal QB Purchase List'?

Do you mean with that list, the one in the unrestricted Real-Battle setup, or the one that is valid during the Task Force generation?

So does that mean, if BiltAid/BCR decided for i.e. an Infantry only battle, and i got points for armor category to spend, that i'm allowed to buy armor, although the computer was restricted to Infantry only, when it generated the Task Force?

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by hobo:

Seahawk - Thanks. The only problem is that Biltaid seems to allow only one unit per battle. Am I doing something wrong?

Hobo

Somehow the untold rule is that stranded units do not happen that frequently, hence the unwritten rule of one attached unit per battle. I also assumed one per battle (or when points are available).

[Schoerner]

Seahawk,

a suggestion for BiltAid:

wouldn't it be good, if you would include BCR's version# in BiltAid's name?

i.e.

BiltAid_v1.03_BCR2.2

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Schoerner:

Seahawk,

a suggestion for BiltAid:

wouldn't it be good, if you would include BCR's version# in BiltAid's name?

i.e.

BiltAid_v1.03_BCR2.2

Yes, that is easy. You can actually change it yourself. I was thinking more on providing a man page and an About BiltAid pop-up panel actually

[Biltong]

Originally posted by hobo:

BCR Fans - I have some modifications to HQ unit rules that I thought I would pass on for discussion.

I believe the experience of the platoon HQ is 99% dependent on the HQ leader. Thus, I cannot believe they would lose experience if a member that is not the leader is lost. To account for this using Biltaid, I calculate if the HQ leader is lost in combat using straight percentages (1 in 4 chance if a platoon HQ unit loses a man). If the leader is lost, I assume the whole unit is lost when entering in the data using Biltaid (one problem w/ this is emergency reorganizations are a little off). If the leader survives, I enter no lost men in Biltaid.

If I lose the Company commander, I pick one of the platoon commanders to take his place and reduce his experience level by one. I then generate a new platoon HQ unit to repace the one just promoted.

Also, I randomly add one leadership trait everytime a HQ unit gains experience.

Any thoughts on this system?

Regards,

Hobo

While this sounds silly, it has a big impact on the game play. I just lost two regular platoon leaders in the last battle. Both of them with tons of leader traits. I now have two of my platoon led by green LTs each with less traits than their predicessors.

Good ideas Hobo,

There's been quite a bit of discussions on this subject some months ago and it's one of the modifications to implimented in 43. I'm bringing in a couple of changes each year, but in such a way that it can be retrofitted to previous years if the plyers want.

The HQ gaining a leadership quality everytime his exp increases, might be a bit fast...Maybe after every 4 or 5 battles? Or a die-roll/number of battles combination - e.g: After 3 battles you need to roll a 1 to gain a quality; after 4 battles less than 3; after 5 battles less than 5 etc.

The same gains could be implimented for all HQ's, not just the CO.

I would also like to give the HQ's a deserved quality: Command, Hiding etc depending on what happened in previous battles, but I can't think of a simple way of determining this. Maybe some of the players can come up with some ideas? Obviously the easy way, would be to make it a simple random die-roll, but...

Replacing the HQ with a platoon leader is also planned for, but I think the platoon leader will lose more exp than one. He would also, more than likely lose some of his leadership qualities, since he'll be a newbie at his more demanding job.

I'll be curious to hear what else you come up with - You've got me thinking

Biltong.

[Biltong]

Originally posted by hobo:

Rules Gurus -

I just got 160 points for attached units. Can I use this to buy more than one unit? For some reason I thought you could only aquire only one unit per battle but I cannot find that rule. Assuming you can only buy one unit, since there isn't any support or vehicle units that costs that much, do the extra points carry to the next battle?

Thanks,

Hobo

No - you can buy/upgrade as many as you want up to a maximum of 3. E.g.: a couple of tank hunters and a sniper. There's no restriction in the rules of only 1 per battle.

The idea - once again - is to give you a chance to play with units of your own choice. To get to know them etc. But since the points are normally so low, you'll end up playing with cheapy units you won't normally bother with - that's the idea - BCR's hidden teaching objective

As for the points you don't/can't use - they are lost for ever - alas!

[ April 21, 2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Biltong ]