Simon Elwen Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Bunkers should have the the boresighting bonus over their field of fire. After all no one plonks down a concrete bunker any old how. Building any concrete bunker takes weeks, so by the time its finished the crew would have the lines of of sight and ranges worked out in detail. I think that there should be a lot of remodelling done in the area of fortifications, minefields, wire, trenches, antitnk ditches etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Simon and I were mulling this over in the pub last night (for which he will burn for ever in the fiery pits of hell, I feel so rough this morning and some of us have work to go to). The logic behind it is that if you've built a pillbox in a position then the weapon in it is already boresighted. You know the terrain, where the hiding places are, etc. This became clear when I tested one of my scenarios. With an 88 pillbox firing at nearly 3km range, the to-hit chance was about 3%. Is it logical or reasonable to assume that with a pillbox that accuracy should be significantly higher? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I thought AT pillboxes are boresighted, but not sure... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 And if you increase the experience level of the crew to "crack" or "elite" ? It may be represent the capacity of the crew to quickly readjust target after another target ? :confused: These experience levels (only on the german side), AFAIK, also give an "optic bonus"... Anyway, it is only an idea Best regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 My experience suggests that pillboxes aren't boresighted, but I am prepared to be proved wrong on this. As for increasing the crew ability - well, that's a possibility which may improve matters marginally but it doesn't get around the core issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 IIRC one of the CMBO patches increased the hit chance of bunkers because they are supposed to be boresighted. The increase wasn't as large as a TRP though. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I ran a quick test, comparing the 88mm bunker with comparable (L71) towed guns. Targeting T34/76 (M1942) at a range of about 1500m, the towed guns registered a 15% hit chance, while the bunker recieved a 21% hit chance. Use of a TRP on the target boosted all guns to 45%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Elwen Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 I checked the manual "AT gun pillboxes receive an accuracy bonus vs a normal AT gun, because such fortifications have already 'ranged in' the area within their firing arc. Range determination is one of the greatest contributers to aiming accuracy, so predetermined and reliable range informaton greatly increases accuracy (all else being equal" So yes there is a bonus, its about 10% Boresighting with a TRP increases hit chance by around 30% to 40% depending on target size. The big problem is that Pillboxes are too easy to kill at the 300m to 800m ranges , even though any kill chance is listed as rare, firing slit penetrations are all too common in my opinion. From the manual "Ordnance can occasionally score a 'lucky' hit to a pillboxes frontal firing slit, possibly knocking out the pillbox in the process. But this is generally only possible at close range (within a few hundred meters)." Its probably better to buy 2 AT guns for about the same points and put them in trenches if the battle ranges are less then 1000m Above 1000m a pillbox is very robust and will survive well against multiple targets. 79th Armoured Division History D-Day "The most lively fire came from the 88mm west of La Riviere which had survived the bombardment. It accounted for 2 AVRE's and was only silenced when Captain R V Bell, Westminster Dragoons "posted a letter" in the embrasure from about 100 yards. Our infantry later found the crew cowering in the shelter behind the gun" Of course its perfectly reasonable to expect a crew to abandon a pillbox through adverse morale which is much more likely if its being pounded by masses of fire even though the incoming fire may well not be able to destroy it. Therfore I think that pillboxes should be much harder to kill at longer ranges, ie over 300m, they should be made more expensive in return. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Bore Sighting? You can do that in the General Forum for free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hey Simon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscript Bagger Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Originally posted by Soddball: Bore Sighting? You can do that in the General Forum for free. Perhaps "free" in the sense that you aren't charged for it, but you definitely pay a price! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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