Henschel Hs 129B bomb load

[Zveroboy]

I tried building a July 43 Soviet defense by setting up a rifle company in trenches on a steppe map with small hills and almost no trees.

Then I gave the Axis 2 Henschels 129 B with a Messerschmitt escort and a sharpshooter to observe the results.

I had to play in hot seat mode because the AI would try to walk the sharpshooter right up to the Soviet position, get killed and surrender.

Ok so the Messerschmitt made a couple of strafing runs but when it was the Henschels' turn they both dropped dozens of small bombs on the Soviets. The strikes were pretty accurate and definitely spectacular, but didn't cause any casualties.

I go in the editor and find that this model of Henschel is carrying :

2x20mm, 2x8mm (5 strafes max)

2x550 lb bombs

or

48x5 lb bombs

Now the 550lb bombs while not the biggest can seriously hurt infantry but a 5 lb bomb :eek:

what type of bomb is this?

Is there a way to know what payload you will get beforehand or is it random?

Also what is the best way to use them bomblets?

At first I thought it might be a bomb designed to destroy landing strips.

Another thing that bugs me : can you have more than one plane attacking each turn or do they only come one after the other?

[imported_no_one]

Now the 550lb bombs while not the biggest can seriously hurt infantry but a 5 lb bomb

what type of bomb is this?

Don't know,I guess it would be like a 50mm mortar shell,maybe even 81/82mm mortar.Good question.

Is there a way to know what payload you will get beforehand or is it random?

Also what is the best way to use them bomblets?

At first I thought it might be a bomb designed to destroy landing strips.

I am pretty sure that it is random,and it really doesn't matter what you could/should use the bomblets on because you have no say in what the plane does.I would guess that the bomblets would be good against units in scattered trees,or woods.

Another thing that bugs me : can you have more than one plane attacking each turn or do they only come one after the other?

Yes.I have seen many.Not sure if there is even a limit.

[Generaloberst Guderian]

I'm not sure about the number of aircraft that can simultaneously attack, but I'd imagine 5lb bombs would be used for anti-personnel use. Considering the scope and focus of CMBB, they probably wouldn't include any anti-runway munitions (if there were any at the time, I don't know) given that this is a more tactically oriented game, and runways are opererational/strategic targets.

The problem with a multiple-bomblet type setup is that in this case, the plane is only carrying 240lbs of explosives, whereas a modern cluster bomb is much heavier in and of itself. I guess you just need to hope for the bigger bombs.

[Pzman]

You can have as many planes on the map at a time as you wish. I've had aircraft from both sides attacking on the same turn before.

[DEY]

Use the Henschels 129 B-2 dive bomber, it's equipped with 6-550lb bombs

Here is a little info on the bomblets, it doesn't state the wieght of the sd-2 but the info I have is that it's actually 4.4lb's.

A large array of bombs were used by the Luftwaffe. At the start of the war, the most common fragmentation bombs were the SD-10 (22 lbs.) and SD-50 (110 lbs.). As the war progressed, it became apparent that there was a need for an area-saturation fragmentation weapon, rather than the earlier models that more or less required an accurate drop. The SD-2 was procured and mass-produced, and at the start of the Russian campaign was in widespread use. Initially, the bomblets were hung individually on aircraft (the Bf-109 and Ju-87, for instance, could carry 96 of them), but time went on, a plywood dispenser container was created and used by many airframes. In the largest size used, these plywood containers could carry up to 248 of the SD-2 bomblets. A low-level profile was needed for accurate drops, which became increasingly difficult due to ground fire. Of more use on the front was the SD-1 bomblet, which at 2.2 lbs offered a larger spread for the same size dispenser. With the design of a popular new dispenser, the AB250, this bomb case could be more accurately dropped in more profiles and would release about 225 SD-1s.

For attacking armor, however, both the SD-1 and 2 were ineffective. After discovering that conventional bombs often were ineffective at scoring hits on moving or dispersed armor, the Germans introduced the 8.8 lb SD-4HI cluster bomblet, which had a hollow charge warhead that could penetrate as much as five inches of armor. As many as 78 SD-4HIs were packed into 1,100 lb containers and were used heavily by Ju-87 Stukas, which had the means to accurately drop them in steep dives. Larger 550 lb hollow charge bombs were used against fortifications, and they allowed up to 10 ft of armor penetration against concrete fortifications.

General purpose bombs tended to be either the SC-10 (22 lb), SC-50 (110 lb), or SC-250 (550 lb), sometimes fitted with long spikes on their nose to attack raillines and roads. Some of the spiked bombs could be dropped from as low as 160 ft AGL and proved useful in that role.

[Bone_Vulture]

Uh, could someone shead some light on the historical background of these bomblet payloads?

If they did exist, I assume it was meant to be like a miniature carpet bombing on tactical level, or something. What it be? :confused:

[Zveroboy]

Thanks guys.

DEY nice find on the bomblets. So it was an area-saturation fragmentation weapon, that means anti personel right?

I have been running some tests with the different Henschel models and I had some pretty weird results with the B2 dive bomber. It seems that half the time the Henschels don't drop any bombs at all, although they definitely strafe a lot.

All the other variants (HS 123A and B1) seemed fine and I ran the test several times.

I also ran tests with the Stuka 87D and they almost cleared the whole trench line when the Henschels would only shake the infantry and panic it at best.

Concerning the bomblets they are pretty useless against entrenched infantry thats all I can say.

Also it is funny how a puny 25mm AA gun at 13 pts will distract the bombers and make them completely miss their targets.

[Zveroboy]

Anyone else noticed a problem/bug with the B-2 dive bomber not dropping any bombs or is it just me??

[DEY]

It appears your right, I couldn't get any bommbs off it either, it makes the sounds that it's making a bombing run, then nothing.

It does make strafing runs with it's guns but the bombs seemed to be stuck in the racks.

Just another of the many aircraft bugs, thats to bad because that would be a cool bad ass weapon in the game.

The only other big bomb load german aircraft in the game I can think of and one that works also is the BF-110E, loaded with 2x1100lb and 4x110lb bombs.

This aircraft flew throught out the war, on all fronts as far as I know.

[Zveroboy]

Damnit I was hoping it was just my test that was flawed.

The first time I tested it, it dropped all its bombs but when I reran the tests it would just make the bombing sounds like you said.

Good tip on the BF-110E. Have to try it sometime.

[Glider]

I was also surprised when I noticed that in my tests Hs 129s dropped only small bombs... the big-bomb type was just straffing.

[Glider]

Originally posted by DEY:

...

The only other big bomb load german aircraft in the game I can think of and one that works also is the BF-110E, loaded with 2x1100lb and 4x110lb bombs...

I think that the Stuka works, too.

[SpitfireXI]

How common was it to use these big bomb load aircraft in these close support roles? Would these loads not be used for strikes than on close support?

[Bone_Vulture]

Originally posted by SpitfireXI:

How common was it to use these big bomb load aircraft in these close support roles? Would these loads not be used for strikes than on close support?

I'm quite confident that these payloads were not used to pulverize lone trucks.

[MikeyD]

"it makes the sounds that it's making a bombing run, then nothing."

Did you have any AA assets? An aircraft can be forced to abort its bombing run by accurate AA. But what sort of decent AA assets do the russian have in 43?

[Glider]

I bought about 10 Hs-129s, no AA, and only those with 48x5 lb bombs dropped them at all.

[DEY]

I played around with this some more, had 4 elite crewed B-2 dive bombers in a test battle same map as above, there is or never was any AA assets.

Again the aircraft will make those high pitched screaming howls as to indicate it's making a bombing run, but nothing more happens. You can see the shadow of the plane going across the map, but it doesn't seem to pick a target on that fly over.

So there does appear to be another bug here, odd I guess in all the time I've had BB I never used this aircraft yet.

[The Colonel]

I did get an Hs-129 to make a successful bomblet attack the other day. It took out an SU-76 with a large barrage of small explosions covering about 100 meters long and 20 meters wide. It didn't seem to bother the infantry in the area though (in foxholes in woods).

[tar]

Base gun armament was two 7.9mm MG-17 machine guns (500 rounds per gun) and two 20mm MG 151/20 cannon (125 rpg).

Well, this may not match the description in the unit screens, but the Hs 129B-2 could be configured with various gun-packs in the centerline position, instead of bombs. Popular fittings were a single 30mm Mk 101 or Mk 103 cannon (30 rounds) for anti-armor use. Alternately, four 7.9mm MG-17 machine guns (250 rpg) could be carried.

A centerline gun would preclude most of the bomb load, although it was possible to carry 2xSD-50 or 48xSD-2 bombs on wing racks.

Some other interesting armament options were a 37mm BK 3,7 antitank gun (which required removing the standard two MG-17s).

The Hs 129B-3/Wa had a 75mm anti-tank gun, usually a PaK 40 with 12 rounds, but sometimes a BK 7,5 instead.

[Glider]

Originally posted by The Colonel:

I did get an Hs-129 to make a successful bomblet attack the other day. It took out an SU-76 with a large barrage of small explosions covering about 100 meters long and 20 meters wide. It didn't seem to bother the infantry in the area though (in foxholes in woods).

Yes, that is what we say. It drops 48 x 5lb bomblets, but the version with 2 x 550lb bombs is not making bombing runs.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Zveroboy:

...a 5 lb bomb :eek:

what type of bomb is this?

An early type of cluster bomb.

Also what is the best way to use them bomblets?

Probably against personnel moving in the open. Also guns not dug in. But as already noted, the player has no control over that.

Michael