Tank Hunter Team

[chiavarm]

I noticed they are equipped with magnetic mines.

How do they employ them?

[Brent Pollock]

Get them within about 30 m of the vehicle and cross your fingers.

Pretty much the same drill for grenades, grenade bundles, DCs, Molotovs, RPGs and early PFs.

Originally posted by chiavarm:

I noticed they are equipped with magnetic mines.

How do they employ them?

[MikeyD]

in real life a soldier would scamper up to the tank, attach the mine in much the same manner as a big refrigerator magnet, pull the pin, and run in the opposite direction. The mine's HEAT warhead does the rest. When you see the mine fly through the air in the game imagine one of those 'invisible' squad members (you can only see 3 out of 9) is actually running it to the tank.

Funny thing was, the Germans believed the Russians were going to deploy their own magnetic mines and went to considerable trouble and expense coating all their armor in Zimmerit anti-magnetic paste (pretty much paper pulp and acetate paste). The Russians never fielded a magnetic mine. The Germans wasted their time and money, but 60 years later we've got some very cool armor models out of it

[Spiked]

And what about the russian tank hunters? Ive had two teams each hunting on a panzer III. Both teams were within 30 meters and both didnt get a kill just ''no significant damage''. (they fired quite some time)

Did I deploy them wrong or are they just only usable against lower quality panzers? (they did work aganst a panzer II.)

My guess is that only hitting them on the top will do some damage. Or was it just bad luck?

laters Spiked

[Beta1]

depends what they were carrying.

If you got unlucky and they just had molotovs you need a fair bit of luck to get a kill.

If your lucky though you might get a grenade bundle, or a RPG depending on the date. These have a fair chance of a kill. I wouldnt have thought a P3 was unkillable by any means.

[Spiked]

mmm they did only carry molentofs... It is very much in the beginning the war in the east.

Well lets hope I get luckier this evening

[jozezas]

I wanna met some guy over internet, how do i do????

[jozezas]

I want to play whit somebody on internet, how do i do?

[chiavarm]

Originally posted by jozezas:

I wanna met some guy over internet, how do i do????

Go Here.

http://www.combatmission.com:8000/

load chat.

When you are in ther ring the bell and type:

anyone for CMBB game?

Hope to see you there.

[Jack Carr]

If you can get your hands on a movie called, "Men Against Tanks" you see how these magnetic mines were employed. This video is actually a German training film from the war which shows a staged Russian attack on a dug in defensive line. The Germans must have used captured T-34's and a captured KV-1 as well as the Russian uniforms.

[Dandelion]

...and magnetic mines were also equipped with chains and hooks, as mud and dirt negated the comparatively weak sticking power.

German tank hunter teams were normally four men teams. In order to achieve zero range and attach the mine, and survive doing it, they would usually have to blind and halt the enemy AFV. Halting it is what the "geballte ladung" is for (bundled grenades - your CM teams are equipped with such). These, or comparable charges, were used to blow tracks off, effectively halting the AFV. Normally administered by the team leader.

Another team member would use smoke from some source - usually Blendkörper, a chloride gas smoke grenade which was liberally distributed, but there were numerous variants actually used including simple wet hay - and the most common method seems to have been two smoke grenades attached by a wire, thrown a bit like a Bola, the aim being hanging them over the barrel or on the front armour of the AFV. If chloride, the smoke itself could force evacuation. Your CM team has no smoke. This team member is missing.

A third member would attempt to destroy the AFV. If equipped with magnetic mines he'd attach it to vulnerable spots or hang it on the hull using hooks and chains. I don't believe he would have voluntarily climb up on the AFV, as he would not have needed to. He could also attach demolition charges, ordinary AT mines equipped with a rugged timer, or bundled greandes, to the hull. Or he would simply fire flare pistols into openings and use fire (molotovs, gasoline etc). With any luck the AFV would be destroyed or the crew surrender.

The fourth member would simply secure the team from infantry attack and stay on overwatch. This team member is also missing in the game.

The main issue was survival rate, which was low. The solution was the Panzerfaust. Essentially, the Panzerfaust was a Hohlladung (magnetic mine) attached to a rocket. The zero-range demand of magnetic mines was what caused casualties, men needed to break cover and expose themselves in order to apply the explosives. The Panzerfaust solved the range issue. Survival rates increased.

The HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) charge mentioned by Mikey D - or shaped charge - is simple in principle. Explosives shaped as a cone, with the hollow end pointing "forward" as it hits the target. It detonates upon impact (or timer or fuze), and when it does, the explosives release energy that, by the conical shape, is channeled into a narrow and extremely powerful blast. This blast penetrates the armour by "welding" a very small and insignificant hole, as the energy is trapped by the mass of the armour. But as it exits on the inside it is free to expand in the air, and it expands in all directions, causing grievous damage in a confiuned space.

AT mines would normally also use shaped charges, or HEAT if you will, same thing.

The Germans continously trained tank hunting, frontline units and veterans too. Experiences were shared and men sent on refresher courses to learn new equipment and technique. A lot of "merkblatt" (instruction sheets) were issued on the topic. They trained on destroyed or captured enemy AFV if they could.

Covers your question Chiv?

Cheers

Dandelion

[chiavarm]

Yes that about covers it.

I used Tank Hunter team to take out a KV1. It was a beautiful thing.

[Denwad]

HEAT rounds do not melt through armor in any way. HEAT is really a misnomer, most people see it as HEAT = high temperature

HEAT, shaped charge, hollow charge, it's all the same. It's basically a HE round with a cone in one end of the round. The explosion collapses the cone into a fast moving ( but solid ) slug ( 11km/s ) that drills through armor.

[flamingknives]

Mr. flamingpicky reckons that while the jet may be moving at about 10km/s, the slug moves at 8km/s tops.

A further cause for confusion is that while the jet is fluid, it is not liquid. The hydrostatic pressure in the material has exceeded the bulk yield stress, but no phase change has occurred.

Not to say that 10km/s copper going through 100mm+ steel plate doesn't generate a tiny bit of heat.

[Bone_Vulture]

I always thought that the shaped charge of a HEAT round would create a focused pinpoint of pressure that'd manifest as a dart of plasma or something.

If temperature is not an issue, then why are modern tanks equipped with ceramic plates? I used to think that the plates were used to create heavy duty insulation, is it a case of dispersing kinetic energy instead? :confused:

Also, about attaching the magnetic mines: weren't they magnetic to begin with? :confused:

[flamingknives]

Re: HEAT vs. ceramics. If the jet generated by the shaped charge is disrupted in some way, the penetration falls off markedly. Ceramics are apparently very good at doing this.

It is a focussed pinpoint of pressure (sort of) but it crushes, shapes and accelerates the liner into a hyper-velocity jet.