Panther II Pics

[DEY]

I came across these pics today on usenet. I've never seen these pics of this AFV before.

And I sure as hell have never seen the below pic before, I was under the impression that there never was a panther II turret manufactured. This one is not only been made but from the looks of it, has seen more then a little action.

One can't help but wonder if indeed there was a completed panther II made after all and the tank was knocked out through destroying the turret.

Then afterwords the destroyed turret was replaced with a panther I turret.

Food for thought anyway.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panth2.htm

[rune]

Nope. That is the Panther II at Fort Knox and the Patton Museum. It is an Auf G turret, as no turret was ever produced and only one body was produced.

From Actung Panzer Web Site:

In the early 1944, MAN (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nuremberg) was allowed to produce two prototypes but was only able to produce one in early 1945, without newly designed Schmalturm turret. On May 4th of 1944, it was realized that German industry was unable to start Panther II's production and this project was abandomed in favour of further development of Panther Ausf G/F based on lessons learned from Panther II. On June 3rd of 1944, all companies which were to produce Panther II, were ordered to start the production Panther. Since turret's design was never completed, for test purposes prototype Panther II was fitted with newly built Ausf G turret (built in March/April of 1945) armed with 75mm KwK 42 L/70 gun and with special mountings for infrared device and telescopic range finder. It is possible that it was used in combat but there is no records of it, while some sources state that Ausf G turret was fitted by the Americans after the chassis was captured.

I believe ti says almost the same thing in the plaque in front of the Panther II at the museum. I may have a photo of it someplace at home.

Rune

[DEY]

Okay I guess there was two turrets equipped with 75mm guns manufactured and these were fitted to two Panther Ausf-G's.

That one above must be the one in the Tank Museum in Bovington,England, where it was taken after being used as a target on the Larkhill firing range.

I thought the gun seemed a bit small for an 88.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/1167/eschmalt.html

Here is another interesting page at the same site.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/pzpanther/pzpanther-Schmalturm.html

[ April 29, 2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: DEY ]

[DEY]

Here some more panther links for any one interested.

It's certain what and where that above turret is.

http://www.tankmuseum.co.uk/newspress0801.html

http://members.tripod.com/~dietmagic/panther3copy.html

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40260

[MikeyD]

That turret does look very odd.

Not a schmalturm but its got the schmalturm mouse ears for the rangefinder, and significantly thicker armor. And what the heck type of gun is mounted?! Really odd.

Here's aschmalturm photo:

[flamingknives]

The Bovington turret looks almost exactly like a schmalturm that's had the carp knocked out of it due to having been sat on a military tank firing range for at least a decade

[patboy]

Originally posted by DEY:

Here some more panther links for any one interested.

http://members.tripod.com/~dietmagic/panther3copy.html

Hi DEY,

I was there at Saumur "military Carrousel" in 1991

when my brother, young leutnant participated to his "carrousel" ! Very impressive military armor collection, especialy German Panzers and they roll again, very stunning, Thanks for the link.

Cheers

Pat

[Brent Pollock]

...and I'm guessing the gun tube's been sawed off and that's why it looks like the offspring of an L/24 & an L/48.

Originally posted by flamingknives:

The Bovington turret looks almost exactly like a schmalturm that's had the carp knocked out of it due to having been sat on a military tank firing range for at least a decade

[DEY]

I don't think there is any doubt now that that turret in my first original post is the one the brits took and is now in the Bovington Tank Museum.

But questions are in my mind now after looking around and reading some of the stuff at the links I found.

Two prototype models of the 7.5cm Kw.K 44/1 L/70 armed Schmalturm were mounted on Panther Ausf. G bodies for evaluation

What happened to these AFV's did they take the turrets off them at some point and time, and what about below are they another two turrets that where made or are they the above two turrets that where removed from the ausf-G's.

At least two examples of the Schmalturm were recovered for evaluation by the Allies at the Daimler-Benz plant in Berlin-Marienfelde.

One was transported to the Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland, America, the other going to the Royal Armoured Corps' Bovington Camp, Dorset, England.

And I guess the big question is the quote below, what did happen to the one sent to the United States.

The specimen recovered to the Aberdeen Proving Ground seems to have vanished without trace. At the moment the only records of it appear to be previously published photographs.

Also another interesting question is what happened to the wooden mock-up of the 88mm gunned panther II.

In August 1945, a wooden mock-up was still located at the Daimler-Benz assembly plant.

[Pzman]

Most likely it was destroyed, there would be no point in keeping a wooden mock-up sitting around.

[Mace]

Originally posted by DEY:

[QB]One can't help but wonder if indeed there was a completed panther II made after all and the tank was knocked out through destroying the turret.

IIRC, the turret was sent to the States, studied, then knocked about after being used for target practice.

Mace

[flamingknives]

Originally posted by Pzman:

Most likely it was destroyed, there would be no point in keeping a wooden mock-up sitting around.

Mmm, firewood.

[MikeyD]

I recall reading the Schmaltrum turret in Bovington wound up being dumped as a target on the gunnery range.

Wow, do you think the beat-on turret displayed may actually be the rcovered remains of the thing? If a schmaltrum survived its funny how the topic hasn't popped up before.

[flamingknives]

Yes, the schmalturm at Bovington was recovered from a target range, having been a target. [Edit: and that is the beat up looking thing on display]

That's why there's so many effing big holes in it. I'm fairly sure that's been mentioned at least twice in this topic.

[Mace]

Hmmm. Maybe that was the one I was thinking of.

Mace