SgtMuhammed Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Anyone got a source of these yet. I have found a couple but they are not very detailed. Looks like I'll have to rely on photos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 What exactly are you looking for? What areas, scales, etc. The National Geographic Society is a good source of maps. They may even still have some that were contemporaneous with WW II. Otherwise, searching official histories of the units involved might have the kind of thing you need. The CMH Green Book on Torch/Tunisia has some very nice ones AIR. Michael Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Gen. Melchett: God, it's a barren, featureless desert out there, isn't it. Cpt. Darling: The other side (of the map), Sir! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Good 1:50,000 scale would be nice. I have checked the CMH campaign series. They have good large scale maps but nothing you can build a scenario around. I will check NG though, hadn't thought of that. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Gen. Melchett: God, it's a barren, featureless desert out there, isn't it. Cpt. Darling: The other side (of the map), Sir! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Good 1:50,000 scale would be nice.I'm afraid that NGS is unlikely to have anything that big. I would expect that 1:1,000,000 would be typical and 1:250,000 would be the best you could hope for. I think there are some private mapping companies that work from satellite photos, but I understand they are trés expen$ive. If you have any buddies still in the army, you might try having them give a shout to the Defense Mapping Agency, which is reputed to have large-scale detailed maps of every inch of the planet where we might be interested in sending troops. Presumably that might include North Africa. Of course, they would be modern, and most of the area that was fought over during WW II has been changed through human efforts and designs since then, in some ways pretty drastically. There are a lot of paved roads where there were none, and parts of the desert have been brought under cultivation through irrigation, etc. I really think your best bet if you are serious is to go to your local library and have them order everything on the subject that you can find and scour them for maps. Start with atlases, especially any that were printed during the 1950s as they are the ones most likely to show conditions at the time of the war. Earlier than that will miss a lot of stuff simply because that area had not been thoroughly explored and surveyed by people who make maps (the Bedouins knew it pretty well). Oil companies doing exporatory work in those days ('50s) might be another resource. Books written about the campaigns and battles are the most likely to have maps useful for designing scenarios as they are the most likely to show militarily significant features, but they also often omit a lot of detail that doesn't feature in their narrative, but could have been important if things had gone a little differently. Good luck and I hope you will feel free to come back with more questions and progress reports. I admit to a personal fascination with maps and am always on the lookout for good maps of the North African battlegrounds. BTW, I have it in mind to scour my book collection to come up with a North Africa reading list for players. If you will give me some idea of what areas and battles you are interested in, I will give you a heads up on any volumes I come across that might contain anything useful to you. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hun Hunter Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by sgtgoody (esq): Anyone got a source of these yet. I have found a couple but they are not very detailed. Looks like I'll have to rely on photos. If you are in the US, go to any large map library. These are usually located in your larger Universities. Your local library should be able to tell you where the nearest one is. Once you get there asked them if they have any AMS maps. These are Army Map Service maps of various areas of the world made during and after WW2. The excess was distributed to various libraries after the war. They may not have complete sets but you will be amazed at how detailed the coverage is. The Map Library I ran for 7 years had almost all of Italy at 1:25,000 (Sicily too if I recall correctly). Tunisia was at 1:50,000 I think. Also, there are many town plans at much larger (more detailed) scales like 1:10,000). If they are missing the sheet(s) you need they can sometimes borrow it from another library by Inter-Library Loan. If all else fails you can contact the Geography and Map Divison at the Library of Congress (or go there if you are near DC). They will have what you need (if it exists) but you will have to pay for reproduction. Remember these are the actual wartime maps used not some map made 30 years later, be gentle with them they do show their age (AND DON"T DRAW ON THE ORIGINALS!!! PAY FOR A COPY!!!) For the Commonwealth folks out there these maps are copies of British general staff maps from the war. I assume they are available in your map libraries. Not sure about the availability of German maps (or maps in Gerany). The Library of Congress will have them but for North Africa they may just be reprints of British/French/Italian maps. I'll do some research and see what else I can turn up. Greg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Michael emrys: If you have any buddies still in the army, you might try having them give a shout to the Defense Mapping Agency, Don't know how generous the US Army is, a friend of mine is a Warrant Officer of the Canadian Military Engineers who works for the Mapping and Charting Establishment in Ottawa. I've asked him about maps before, the answer was a solid no, as they are not allowed to reproduce maps for personal use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hun Hunter Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: If you have any buddies still in the army, you might try having them give a shout to the Defense Mapping Agency, Don't know how generous the US Army is, a friend of mine is a Warrant Officer of the Canadian Military Engineers who works for the Mapping and Charting Establishment in Ottawa. I've asked him about maps before, the answer was a solid no, as they are not allowed to reproduce maps for personal use. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tools4fools Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I've asked him about maps before, the answer was a solid no, as they are not allowed to reproduce maps for personal use. Well, it wouldn't be *personal use* really, no? I mean it would be for the benefit of a whole community... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubique Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 For the UK members of the forum, you might be interested to know that the Public Records Office/National Archive has a massive collection of WW2 maps in all scales down to 1/5000 - and it covers all theatres of war. Many of these are still included in unit war diaries, but there are seperate map classes. To access them you have to make a visit personally, and sadly none of the information is on-line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Hmmm. Now all we need is someone willing to go there and make copies and mail them to us... Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Hmmm. Now all we need is someone willing to go there and make copies and mail them to us... Michael colour copies.... "Ubique" means "everywhere" so it shouldn't be a problem for him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Did they have color back then? I thought ww2 was still fought in black and white. Bertram 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubique Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: [ "Ubique" means "everywhere" so it shouldn't be a problem for him! Ubique spends too much time on battlefields to be copying maps; but I will be spending some time at the PRO/NA in the autumn if any wants anything in specific. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: "Ubique" means "everywhere" Only to the Royal Artillery, according to the rest of the Army it means 'all over the place'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by Firefly: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: "Ubique" means "everywhere" Only to the Royal Artillery, according to the rest of the Army it means 'all over the place'. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pies Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Try COPAC Its the online catalogue of the British Library and 22 Universities. Use the experimental v3 interface and put War Office in the anything box. Comes up with quite a few, Tunisia 1941 1:100,000 for a start and plenty more. You can make an inter Library loan to get hold of some of them. [ June 16, 2003, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: Captain Pies ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Cool! Now we're getting somewhere. But what do we Left Puddlians do? Is there any way to arrange an inter-library loan with the UK? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Cool! Now we're getting somewhere. But what do we Left Puddlians do? Is there any way to arrange an inter-library loan with the UK? Michael Maybe you smarty-pantses should have thought about that in 1776, eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael emrys: Cool! Now we're getting somewhere. But what do we Left Puddlians do? Is there any way to arrange an inter-library loan with the UK? Michael Maybe you smarty-pantses should have thought about that in 1776, eh? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMuhammed Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thanks for all the responses, well the ones that made sense anyway. Now I have a whole new batch of bookmarks to sort through. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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