So, is this where a new player....

[Major Dolt]

..says 'Hello' and asks dumb qustions?

If not, point me in the right direction. If so, get ready for a forehead smacking onslaught.

First one to reply is gonna get it.

[YankeeDog]

Yes, to both your questions.

Welcome, and ask away.

Cheers,

YD

[Redwolf]

Aren't you supposed to ask stupid questions right away without being polite first?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

No no no no.

A true newby should first make wild inaccurate statements without having even the slightest clue. Preferably whilst being rude, preferably to BFC.

[Major Dolt]

*checks his line* Yep, got me a couple of suckers already! :eek:

Just so you know...I've just purchased the retail version after hearing all the praise for the series over the past couple of years. I've been looking for a strategy game where tactics play a bigger role than the size of your force. RTSs are stuck in the same 'ol rut and hex based games are kind of lackluster to me...needless to say, I'm a very happy camper right now, this game's got moxy!

After my first scenario went down like the S.S. Brown Trout to a FJ counter-attack I realized that I had better put my extra large thinking cap on. I did, and my 2nd battle is going much better. It took me around 10 boring turns to position my units, but to watch my minions perform a massive coordinated assault (exactly as I had envisioned of course ) made it all worth the time I had put in. I just wish I hadn't waited so long to grab this gem.

Anyways...enough brown nosing. I have read the manual (*note the swollen noodle*) but a couple of things still seem to elude me...

-Mortars and artillery:

Can I lay down suppressing fire without having LOS? It seems that it occasionally happens, but I'm unsure of the conditions that apply.

When switching targets, does the fire halt immediately or are there ever rounds 'in the air' from the previous turn?

-Smoke:

After the smoke round is fired, how long before does it take to ignite and provide adequate cover?

-Hull Down:

Are there any rules of thumb to use to get my armor in a hull down position and still have LOS with my main gun? I'm also assuming that the co-axel MGs are modeled for German AFVs...correct?

-Retail Version Mods:

Is it true that mods are included on the retail disc, and if so, do I have to install them seperately and what are they in the first place?

Thanks in advance.

[Major Dolt]

This game SUCKS!

There is NO WAY the Germans had that many Tigers in the whole #^@&ing war MUCH less than ONE #^@&ing battle!!

I hope BFC is sued and they are all hung upside-down by thier big toes with fishing line for this POS!

I can't believe I wasted my HARD EARNED $$$ on this crap!!!

(I didn't wanna disturb the natural order of things )

[YankeeDog]

To get to your questions:

Mortars and Artillery:

It depends on what kind of Mortars and Artillery you are talking about. If you've read the manual, you should already be aware of this, but just to make sure you're up to speed, there are two basic types in CMBO: On-board and Off-Board. On-board Arty is represented by and actual mortar or gun team on the map. Off-board assets are represented by an "Artillery Spotter" on the map, who can all in fire from a battery of mortars or guns located somewhere off the map.

On-board mortars and guns can only fire with LOS. There is one exception to this: On-board mortars can fire without LOS if they are in command of a command unit that does have LOS to the target coordinates. They may only "Area Fire" this way - they cannot specifically target a unit, and they will not fire in this way unless you specifically order them to do so during the orders phase. On-board guns cannot fire without LOS under any circumstances. However, sometimes if you *nearly* have LOS to a desired target location, you can 'area fire' with the gun at a spot very close to your desired target and still have some effect. This tactic works especially well with large guns, whose shells have a large area of effect.

Arty spotters controlling Off-board batteries can fire on any spot on the map at any time. However, the artillery rounds come down a lot faster, and the spread of the shell pattern is a lot tighter if they have LOS to the target location.

As for 'rounds in the air', in CMBO, if there are any rounds in the air at the end of the turn, the turn will actually keep going for a few seconds until these rounds in flight are resolved. This is why you the timer will sometimes reach 60 seconds, and all moving units stop, but the turn will play on for a few seconds as the last arty shell fall. AFAIK, rounds fired on a previous turn (of any type)never fall on the succeeding turn in CMBO.

Smoke:

I've never timed the exact amount of time it takes for the smoke to develop, and it may actually depend on shell type, but in my experience it is never longer than about 10 seconds. If you can see the smoke plume graphically on the screen, then the smoke is blocking LOS.

Hull Down:

In CMBO, getting good hull down positions just takes experience and practice. It helps to get down to the "1" viewpoint level and check things out - if it looks like a given position from view 1, it usually is. Keep in mind that hull down is always relative, so a position that is hull down to one target may no longer be hull down if the target moves a few meters. . .

And yes, Co-axial MGs are modeled for both Axis and Allied vehicles that have them. Vehicles cannot, however, fire the Co-axial MG and the main gun simultaneously. Most people consider this realistic as they are generally controlled by the same crew member and would also require a different aim for anything beyond point-blank range.

Unfortuately, I can't answer any questions about the retail version as I do not own it. I'm sure someone else will be along sooner or later to field this.

Also worth noting that if you eventually decide to try CMBB as well, you may find answers to some of the above questions change somewhat for that game. That's a subject for another time, though. . .

Cheers,

YD

[Moon]

-Retail Version Mods:

Is it true that mods are included on the retail disc, and if so, do I have to install them seperately and what are they in the first place?

The retail version has certain mods "pre-installed", i.e. when you install the game, you already get the new terrain graphics etc. Other mods are located on the CD in various directories. Simply scan the CD and have a look. There should be a readme or readme's somewhere in there also. You need to simply copy the BMP files into the BMP folder of your installed game and bingo - mod installed.

Martin

[ June 09, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Moon ]

[Major Dolt]

Co-axel...co-axial...yada yada...whatever.

If you've read the manual, you should already be aware of this, but just to make sure you're up to speed...

Hey! I said I read the manual...I just never claimed to have a photographic memory or to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. Look at my handle for goodness sake!

Thanks YD, makes sense to me. I had a feeling that was the situation, although using the HQ unit as a spotter slipped by me, along with the late falling rounds.

You need to simply copy the BMP files into the BMP folder of your installed game and bingo - mod installed.

Would I need to back up the original .bmps or are they also on the disk in a directory? Thanks for gracing my thread with a BFC presence Moon.

*tips his hat*

Watch this thread, gotta a couple more questions to throw out once I reach the fort.

[Moon]

BFC is always present. The Matrix has you...

From what I recall, the CMBO:SE has the same file structure as our original disc, i.e. the files should be accessible directly off the CD and there should be no need for a backup. You should, umm, check the CD first though. I didn't get my copy yet...

Martin

[Canuck]

Originally posted by Major Dolt:

I've been looking for a strategy game where tactics play a bigger role than the size of your force.

There's no reason to speak metaphorically. Whatever your problems are, I assure you that the Battlefront community will not assault you with any undue harrassment.

[Major Dolt]

There's no reason to speak metaphorically. Whatever your problems are, I assure you that the Battlefront community will not assault you with any undue harrassment.

Hey now! Just becuase my tag says 'Junior Member' doesn't mean that....

*checks*

ahhhrrg...nevermind, you're right.

Well, I'd better get back to my little show and tell before we all have to start wearing waders in here.

-Bounding overwatch:

Will crawling units fire on a target?

Say I have multiple infantry units that need to advance on a position, would anyone actually use BO? I notice that running units will fire on a pre-designated position but do they suffer any penalties to 'hit chance', morale, ect...

If not, I'd assume that just bum-rushing the position would be my best best, otherwise I would prefer to have 1/2 the squad suppressing while the other 1/2 advances and vice versa to keep the pressure on while keeping in as much cover as possible.

Is this an effective tactic in CMBO? How would you move multiple infantry across dangerous terrain quickly?

[lcm1947]

You got it Major Dolt. It is a good tactic to lay down covering fire while you advance your men. As far as crawling units being able to fire I would say no but could be wrong and if I am you can bet I'll be corrected - as is only right. I'll past on the firing while running question as I don't quite know exactly what the effect is although it's not a good idea. I believe stopping the unit even in open terrain and fighting back from that position is preferable to continue running. Glad to have another happy camper as you sound like you are join the forum and discover this most outstanding game. Were you happily married? Just kidding a few married guys actually managed to stay married after finding the game.

[HarryInk]

Welcom to the fold, Major.

And yes...that question about WERE you happily married before you bought the game....very pertinent.

[Swarm]

Good, I found the place for new player dumb posts to go

First and only dumb question at the moment:

Can normal Infantry men take out a tank, be it with grenades or some good shooting( highly unlikely I know but who knows)

BTW, my copy of CM:BO:SE is soon to be in the mail and I can remove the demo

[HarryInk]

Oh, the sweet joy of taking out a tank with plain infantry.

German infantry still in possession of their panzerfausts (you'll see them indicated in the unit info (highlight the unit and hit return, or learn where it's shown in the unit graphic at the bottom of the screen)) have real BITE. :mad: But check whether the fausts have the range of 30m, 50m or 100m. They'll fire off automatically, but if you close assault a tank (from flank or rear, unless you want to die) they'll be guaranteed to punch 'em through.

I've done a couple of assaults with allied infantry. It's been a bit 'comme si comme ca' with them: just grenades or BARs which might panic the panzer crews or might not. How about others' experiences?

There's a report of a Sgt at the Arnaville crossing of the Dornot River (Sept? 1944) trotting along in the dark behind a Tiger I, firing his BAR into the tracks at virtually point blank range, and still failing to immobilize the big kitty. So, it was by no means guaranteed that even with the best chance you'd do damage.

And I've got a question about mortars and sighting them via a HQ unit. I've currently got a Coy HQ in sight of a StuGIII that I want to cause to button up with a 2" mortar just over the lip of the hill (and thus out of sight of the StuG). When I hightlight the two units, HQ in the yellow, and target, I get that the HQ is out of range and therefore the mortar won't target either. Hmmm... Am I missing something???

Cheers

[Maj. Battaglia]

Harry,

You only need to click on the mortar unit. When you do, make sure there is a red command line to the HQ unit in question with LOS to target area (sometimes a closer, passing friendly HQ without LOS to target will usurp command automatically-a pain).

If so, all you need to do is hit "t" and click on the area you want to target. The line before you target will likely be red and black indicating no LOS, but once you click, the target line will be amber (white if smoke), indicating indirect area fire. If not, the HQ does not have LOS to that exact spot, so try something close by.

[Dandelion]

Major Dolt

Lee started threads on infantry tactics here and here. I know its a real funkiller when people do the "yeah yeah we already discussed that ten years ago" routine, so just consider them resources.

The use of a split squad in combat (as in using the mg section to lay down suppressive fire while assaulting with the other) is hazardous in CMBO. This due to the morale loss suffered by the halves in the squad. They feel better when together. I'm not sure how serious the morale loss is, but my picture is that it is pretty serious. Especially as you won't be able to have both halves in command.

The tactic of putting down suppressive fire over enemy positions as such is not only functional, it is highly effective. Even area fire is.

The same goes for advancing when expecting contact. Having one or two out of three squads on BO while the rest is moving is manifestly the healthier way of touristing France in 1944. Takes a bit of experience with commands, delay times and so on to get it to work properly tho.

But I think you need to use whole squads at all times, except when scouting.

Running or in any other way moving infantry suffers loss in spotting and firepower. They are also more easily spotted (although crawling infantry can reach right to under your nose unseen). Same goes for fatigued units. Also, the more up and running you are, the higher the exposure to enemy fire (you can observe this as a percentage when targeting units). Its always best to be still, lying down and in cover. Anywhere from there is a risk.

Bum-rushing enemy positions is extremely hazardous. You can easily end up with your entire company being mowed down before moving ten meters. Or you can succeed spectacularly. If you're less keen on wild cards, scout the enemy position, use convincing preparatory fire and then assault in satisfactory numbers while able to maintain at least some kind of continued suppressing fire. Key here is enemy cohesion, which must not be left intact. Keep an eye on weaponry. Don't assault smg equipped enemies with bolt action rifle squads unless you have to.

If crossing the open, send a section (split a squad) to secure the other end of the open stretch. Take your time to look around over there, the enemy will know what you are up to. If it survives, rush the rest in a heap, all at once (less overall time exposed than arriving in a trickle). Make sure they arrive in a manner enabling defence against sudden counter-attack. Note that command squads are faster than your men, and you don't want them arriving first.

Ok, now I actually have a bird that flew right into my office here, and I don't mean the secretary Its a white and yellow bird with black forehead. Does this happend to you guys? Or is it me being hungover? Pretty noisy little fellow I must say.

Anyway, sure you can stop enemy armour with infantry. I've done that a lot. After he has run you over a couple of times, you have a good chance a buddy or two will get stuck in his tracks, causing immobilisation. Or, the enemy machineguns might become overheated while mowing you down, so bad they'll never fire again. Apart from that, no, no real prospects in that project.

Unless your squad has dedicated antitank weaponry, such as fausts and...well, fausts. A demo charge or rifle grenade might do the trick, but thats an extremely rare kill in my experience, when facing fully armoured AFVs (tho its pretty effective against thinskins and open topped ones, for obvious reasons).

Well, have to go see what I can do about our latest, winged employee here, he's becoming intolerable...

Cheerio

Dandelion

[Dandelion]

...also, I have some very valuable tips on how to ambush Panthers using M18s...

[lcm1947]

Oh yeah Major Dolt listen to Dandelion tell you his sure fire method of dealing with Panthers with M18's. As far as infantry vs tanks, I suggest you only try that if you are playing the German's. I don't ever recall if I have been able to knock out a German tank with American infantry but I can assure you the other way around works all the time. Matter of fact if I had a dime for every time it's happened to me I'd - well, I'd have lot's more beer. In other words it happens a lot - in my opinion.

[YankeeDog]

German infantry is admittedly much better at taking out enemy AFVs.

However, there are a few Allied squad types, such as airborne (w/Gammon Bombs) and Engineers (w/Demo Charges) that aren't so bad at it.

If you want to try your hand at taking out Panthers or Tigers with infantry, play a very short LOS (night or urban) situation. In this type of scenario, you stand a good chance of getting close enough to actually use a thrown AT weapon.

Cheers,

YD

[Swarm]

Well I managed to see a infatry man with hand grenades take out a tank (well, imoblized it anyways).

I was playing the demo for CM:BB on the mission were a large force of Russians with two tanks and hundreds of men were attacking a small, strungout bunch of frontline Germans.

The Russians tanks managed to take out my only "true" anti-tank men and was moving through my lines with no infantry support( :confused: ) passed near a small group of normal infantry and one through a a hand grenede and hit it tracks.

After I got over the shock I then relized I had a big, ugly enemy turret in the middle of my lines.....

Thanks for the info guys and I'm reading over the links right now.

[Maj. Battaglia]

Originally posted by YankeeDog:

However, there are a few Allied squad types, such as airborne (w/Gammon Bombs) and Engineers (w/Demo Charges) that aren't so bad at it.

While this is true, I've also had regular US infantry take out German AFVs. I had a rifle squad destroy a Jagdpanther with a rifle grenade from the side (about 50m?) and rifle squads use regular grenades to take out things such as StuGs from 10m or so.

A word of caution: don't charge a vehicle from any direction if it has the nahverteidigungswaffe. I learned that the hard way.

[Swarm]

A word of caution: don't charge a vehicle from any direction if it has the nahverteidigungswaffe. I learned that the hard way.

A WHAT :confused:

Is it some sort of non-forward faceing MG or something??

[flamingknives]

Nah-verteidigungs-waffe.

Nah - Near/close

verteidigungs - defence

Waffe - launcher

It's essentially a small, short range mortar/grenade launcher. It has an all round field of fire and can make a real mess of assaulting infantry teams.