gorgias Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Is there any reason why the accuracy to CLOSE range (100-300 m) is a lot of bigger in a model of tank than another?? Not crew or other topics that the tank self design i mean. Optics..?? Gun...?? Ammunition maybe..?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 At very close range, the most important factor should be target size. Look at the numbers for that, and take into account side aspect (larger) vs. front (narrower). Only with the lowest velocity guns, like on a Brumbar, should the firing weapon make any appreciable difference, and a marginal one at that inside 300m. I suppose one other case would be 20mm autocannons vs. anything larger. The autos are actually firing 4 rounds at a time rather than 1, so they get a boosted to hit chance. Arguably too big a boost, but that is a different topic. [ April 24, 2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by JasonC: At very close range, the most important factor should be target size. Look at the numbers for that, and take into account side aspect (larger) vs. front (narrower). Only with the lowest velocity guns, like on a Brumbar, should the firing weapon make any appreciable difference, and a marginal one at that inside 300m. I suppose one other case would be 20mm autocannons vs. anything larger. The autos are actually firing 4 rounds at a time rather than 1, so they get a boosted to hit chance. Arguably too big a boost, but that is a different topic. The width of a target is actually one of the least important aspects of target size, height is the primary factor. But at close range the primary ingredient is gunner nerves. If the shot misses and the enemy retaliates, the end is near! Lots of shots go to the side of the target, really wide, cause the gunner rushed the shot. But more rounds land short or go over the target due to nerves, cause the gunner incorrectly set the elevation, or just plain forgot how to aim. I read about a Jagdpanther that missed a stationary Sherman at 300m, the shot ended up in the dirt well short of the target. The gunner shot well on the range, forgot everything in combat. Also read about a 75mm Pak 40 that fired APCR at a T34 moving towards it at 100m and the shot missed! Went over the tank. At close range most guns fire fairly flat trajectories and shots go where they are aimed. High and low misses would seem to be the main type of inaccuracy, caused by gunner error. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorgias Posted April 25, 2003 Author Share Posted April 25, 2003 Then i'm paranoic.... yes Anybody has noticed that the german tanks are a lot of more accurate than soviets to close range? Yes it seem i´m turning mad... but i cannot evite it... i´ve observed a lot of times as soviet tanks need at least two shoots to hit a target to close distance....in the other hand the germans tanks hit the first shoot almost ever.... to 500 meters and more is rare that a soviet hit in the first shoot...500-300 m they have a 20-30% of chance to hit at first...300-100 50% more or less and 100 or less 100% the most of times.... Ok this doesnt mean anything i had very bad luck. But i´ve seen this a lot of times.... i thought that it was for the crew experience... i did the test.... and no... soviet crack crew had the same or worse accuracy than REGULAR german crew... of course a lot of worse than elite or crack german crew that hit 100% to 500 m or more. I did the test 4 or 5 times in hotseat mode to see the % hit accuracy in both tanks and amazingly this prediction is not correct a lot of times...I.e. to 800 m is usual the game gives a % of chance at first about 5 or 8% to hit.... the real is.. the german hit in first shoot about 20% of times or more...the soviets NEVER or very very rare time. In close fight the usual is i´d said before..... soviets minimum 2 shoots to hit, german only one. I thought it was for the german "good optics" or better guns.... but i´ve read ur answer and now i dont know. Well sincerely i think i can not be objective. I´m turning PARANOIC I´ll uninstall the game a time to i´ll get back my normal "status" hehehe Anybody more is "paranoic" as me? Note.- Both tanks were front to front static in flat terrain... I did the test with different models without notice significant change beetween them. Usually i used the IS2 and PzIVh or J (not tiger for i know the ABSOLUTELY and UPSTANDING desing of this feline....hehehehe). If somebody is interested i saw too that the most of times the PzIV won....yes 60-70% of times its better ROF and accuracy disable easily the frontal turret armor of IS2... never the IS2 frontal hull that is unpenetrable as i´ve seen...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 German tanks are credited with better optics that the russian ones, givinbg them and accuracy boost. If you look in the unit information screen for German tanks, there will be a little note as to what optics they have. In other words, read the manual. I think it's Appendix F. assuming that that bit's in the CDV version 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: German tanks are credited with better optics that the russian ones, givinbg them and accuracy boost. If you look in the unit information screen for German tanks, there will be a little note as to what optics they have. In other words, read the manual. I think it's Appendix F. assuming that that bit's in the CDV version I are talking about 100-300m distance here in case you didn't spot it. I don't know about you but I don't need fancy binoculars at that distance 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I'd swear the accuracy/range correlation isn't linear in CMBB, especially when you're talking VERY close range. I recall in one game getting my Lend-Lease 75mm gun Sherman maneuvered to within 15 meters of a Tiger I's rear and MISSING TWICE! Just enough time for the Tiger to slowly rotate its turret around and dispatch me with one shot. It felt very much like my probability of hitting that Tiger was the same at 15 meters as it was at 150 meters. Looks like CMBB's built to run at its best at medium-long ranges. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Could this be just another case of the 'Murphy's law bug' in which the AI always seem to get better shots at close range than the human player. I've certainly noticed it occasionally. I know from the huge AI cheating thread a while ago that it isn't the case, and it's not a bug, when you analyse it properly; but the fact that that thread was started, and went on for so long in the first place suggests that it's a phenomenon that people sometimes see. [ April 25, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Ant ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 I was under the impression that the accuracy bonus for good optics applied at all ranges. I know my rifle scope is no good at very short range as it cannot focus both the recticle and the target. Perhaps poor or indefferent quality optics suffer from something similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted April 25, 2003 Share Posted April 25, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: I was under the impression that the accuracy bonus for good optics applied at all ranges. I know my rifle scope is no good at very short range as it cannot focus both the recticle and the target. Perhaps poor or indefferent quality optics suffer from something similar. In CMBB, the optics mostly improve spotting and not gun accuracy anyway. Compare the hit probablities reported by CMBB for two guns with similar muzzle velocity and mounted on vehicles with different quality optics. They are almost the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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