Borg spotting and buttoned tanks

[Der Kuenstler]

After many engagements I've observed that if your tank is buttoned or commander has been taken out, borg spotting won't work. Every guy in your force can see that T-34 over the hill but if your button tank crests with a cover arc there, it will just sit there until it starts to get shot at. Anyone confirm?

[tar]

Well, buttoned (and by extension tanks w/o commanders) do have degraded reactions. There is still some Borg spotting effects, of course, but buttoned vehicles do have some awareness penalties.

You should also be sure that the crew is not still shaken when they crest the hill. That will also reduce their reaction time.

It is not required that a buttoned vehicle be engaged before it notices something. Although having shells hit your vehicle does certainly command attention.

This may also be a situation where giving explicit targetting orders becomes necessary. You can actually give them targets which are out of line of sight that way. It will keep the target for a little while in the hopes that it will soon be in LOS. But this is a temporary effect.

[dieseltaylor]

You should also be sure that the crew is not still shaken when they crest the hill. That will also reduce their reaction time.

I just know you meant to say INCREASE reaction time

[Yushal]

No, he meant to say reduce.

If they are still shaken when they crest, then there may be increase.

[Joachim]

Borg spotting only works in the Command phase. During the Go-Phase, Borg Spotting does not work as units seem to be calculated individually with the TacAI.

In the green bar phase the AI issues its command. In the blue bar phase the TacAI is calculated.

I use this knowledge to time my moves. Closing hatches in the first seconds of a turn, then hunting up into shooting positions with an additional reverse command issued. Next turn I delete the hunt command and have a zero-delay reverse command before my tank becomes the target of anything with LOS.

Gruß

Joachim

[Der Kuenstler]

Originally posted by Joachim:

Borg spotting only works in the Command phase. During the Go-Phase, Borg Spotting does not work as units seem to be calculated individually with the TacAI.

In the green bar phase the AI issues its command. In the blue bar phase the TacAI is calculated.

I use this knowledge to time my moves. Closing hatches in the first seconds of a turn, then hunting up into shooting positions with an additional reverse command issued. Next turn I delete the hunt command and have a zero-delay reverse command before my tank becomes the target of anything with LOS.

Gruß

Joachim

Can you expound on this? What do you mean by green bar/blue bar phase? What bars are you referring to? Also, how can you delete your hunt command when your reverse comand comes after it?

[Joachim]

After you hit "GO" there is a black rectangle in the center of the screen. A light green bar indicates progress of the calcs of the "StratAI" - aka the AI plots commands for its units.

Then there starts a small blue bar in the center of the command panel. It indicates the progress of the calcs of the TacAI.

IMHO the TacAI works like this:

For each "time-unit" (must be less than seconds) the TacAI checks each unit

- for LOS to its targets,

- scans LOS for enemy units

- check whether enemy unit counts as spotted

- check whether enemy is a threat and react accordingly overriding the command sequence and initiating evasive or attack action.

- check for collisions

- check for LOS to target

- check for suppression/incoming

- no or only a "realistic" broadcast of "enemy over there"-message.

This is based on

a) observation of progress of blue bar and

how I would design it

Dunno if it is really as I think it is - but keeping these actions in mind helps me planning my moves.

Even if your inf squad 10m ahead of the tank spots an ATG, the tank does not necessarily spot it during the turn.

To delete a command in the middle of the command sequence, select the white or red waypoint indicating the end of that move (not of the sequence) and press delete. Sometimes it works.

Gruß

Joachim

[ June 24, 2006, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Joachim ]

[tar]

Clearly BORG spotting happens during the turn as well. That is why high value targets (like flamethrowers and mortars) almost instantly draw tons of fire when they get spotted and identified.

BFC have always acknowledged that Borg spotting exists and will disappear in the next game. There is some reaction penalty given to buttoned vehicles, but that is independent of the Borg spotting issue.

[Joachim]

Guess I have to add a few lines to my post above:

If one unit does spot the enemy, a nearby unit will not necessarily have instant knowledge about the enemy - but the intel will spread out over time. Intel can be spread via radio, via handsigns, via observing other units firing in the direction of the enemy or sumfink else. Word about heavy wpns should spread quicker than about low value targets. Is that borg spotting or modelling of RL? The penalty models the time it takes till intel is shared.

In the orders phase, borg spotting is instant on for all. One unit spotting the enemy in second 59 will mean it is spotted by all for the next turn.

There is some borg spotting in the go phase as it seems a unit becomes a generic unti marker (aka drops from sight) only after all units loose LOS.

Gruß

Joachim