Ski troops: Speed and stamina?

[markshot]

I don't have much ski troop experience.

I am playing a scenario with a Soviet SMG ski platoon. 2 squads still have theirs ski and 2 squads are now on foot. I just gave them a MOVE order to a new location. As far as could tell both all platoons were covering ground at the same speed and neither one appeared to be tiring any quicker. Is this correct?

So, what is the advantage of ski troops?

Two more question ... when ski troops exchange fire do they have greater exposure before the ditch their skis and do they deliver the same fire power before they ditch their skis?

Thanks.

[ October 17, 2003, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: markshot ]

[markshot]

?

[Sergei]

I have found ski troops to be faster than foot infantry, but that's just a limited experience. The effect should be greater the more snow you have (light snow, snow, heavy snow). Also, in real life skiing through thick forest isn't much easier than walking but on open ground the difference is noticeable.

Especially if you can't ski.

[ October 18, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Sergei ]

[Sardaukar]

Originally posted by markshot:

I don't have much ski troop experience.

I am playing a scenario with a Soviet SMG ski platoon. 2 squads still have theirs ski and 2 squads are now on foot. I just gave them a MOVE order to a new location. As far as could tell both all platoons were covering ground at the same speed and neither one appeared to be tiring any quicker. Is this correct?

So, what is the advantage of ski troops?

Two more question ... when ski troops exchange fire do they have greater exposure before the ditch their skis and do they deliver the same fire power before they ditch their skis?

Thanks.

Some real military experiences with skis. If it's light snow, (ankle deep, for example) there shouldn't be much difference. Sometimes (thick bushes and forest etc.) it can be more beneficial to even remove skis and continue on foot.

When snow becomes knee deep and more, skis get more and more beneficial, to point that there is no point to even try to move on foot.

Andvantage of skis is mostly tactical, not related to single fire combat, where they give neither benefit nor disadvantage (IMHO). Skis give superior mobility when there are more than light snow. Foot soldiers tire fast slogging through snow, and are mainly incapable of conducting movements outside roads and tracks (unless equipped with snowshoes etc..which are slower and even more cumbersome). That was best demonstrated in Finno-Russian Winter War in battle of Raate road, where vastly outnumbered and outgunned Finnish forces were able to tactically and operationally run circles on 2 Soviet divisions with no "offroad" capability and destroy them by achieving "relative superiority" in each engagement and destroying enemy piecemeal.

So, in game terms, if you have deeper than light snow, ski infantry should have more mobility and less exhaustion than foot troops. Waist deep soft snow should be almost impossible, or at least extremely slow and exhaustive for troops on foot.

Ski troops shouldn't have any greater exposure to fire than others..after all, they don't make you a bigger target.

Cross country skiing is quite difficult skill to learn. German troops in Lappland were never able to get even close to proficiency of Finns in that, despite continuous Finnish instruction, and they were there from 1941-44. It gets even more difficult when moving as unit and bringing crew-served weapons with you.

Thus, IMHO, skiing is a force multiplier in tactical level, bringing your troops to favourable fighting position. In actial combat they have no effect. But troops should be able to recover their skis when disengaging.

Close relation to modern terms is that ski troops in arctic conditions are like heliborne troops compared to normal infantry. Able to move swiftly and surprise less mobile infantry enemy, but not necessarily able to bring as heavy weaponry with them.

Cheers,

M.S.

[Frunze]

There doesn't seem to be anything in the manual about skis.

In CMBB, ski troops seem to be able to run across snow without tiring as quickly. That's just an impression, I haven't done a test. Snow depth may be a factor. Troops don't usually tire that much on "move" anyway.

Outgoing firepower and vulnerability to incoming fire are probably the same.

I tend to think that skis are of some use for the initial part of the battle, before contact with the enemy, in moderate to deep snow. When your troops come under fire, the skis will tend to come off anyway. (They have to take 'em off to take cover. Or hide. Or "advance." Or enter a building. And there's no way to put 'em back on.)

Maybe also for moving up additional troops after initial contact. Reserves, etc.

[George MC]

I've done a few tests and yes ski troops with skis can 'run', ski, over snow for lobger without tiring. When they come under fore they ditch the skis and as we know they stay off.

Does anyone know if in an operation when they ditch their skis, do they get them back after each battle, or are they lost and gone forever?

Cheers fur any help

George Mc

[JasonC]

Being shot at to the point where the men duck causes them to lose the skis. Ordering "advance" causes them to lose the skis. On "move", they have fine speed even in deep snow, and that is the ordinary way they should get around. Move to contact for the leading units if you are worried about enemy fire.

Run makes them move faster but tires them out; use it only for short bursts e.g. to cross an open area quickly. But I'd save their mostof their fatigue for after they ditch them and want to use advance. So you should go back to "move" after they hit "tiring".

The typical use of them is to get a company or so into some useful flanking position in deep woods. You can move rapidly and safely, while men on foot would go slow and tire. Safely inside terrain, understand. You don't try to ski under fire - the men won't anyway.

[George MC]

Hi Jason C

Thanks for the tips - great stuff.

Do you know though whether in an operation if your troops lose their skies whether they get them back? I'm designing an op which by rights should have cavalry but as horses are not modelled I thought ski troops would be a sub for horse mounted infantry. It is a BIG map with snow I'm designing so the Russians do have to be able to move reasonablly speedily. I don't won't to give them trucks as this will limit a) their approach play against the AI c) they did'nt have a lot of trucks in this action.

Any help would be much appreciated.

George Mc

[MikeyD]

Y'know I've owned CMBB/CMAK for most of the new millenium and I think I've used skis on only three occassions in all that time. It sounds like its time for me to give 'em another try. Anything to boost maneuverability in deep snow!