Bogged/Immobilized Tanks

[Colonel J Lee]

Is a unit (tank) less likely to bog in wet ground if it is executing a "move" vs. "fast move" order?

:confused:

I have had several bog down in one scenario , one of which freed itself, but I'm curious to know if there is a way to reduce the likelihood of bogging by moving slower (or faster).

[rune]

yes, speed impacts the chance of bogging/immobilization.

Rune

[Redwolf]

There are huge threads about it in the CMAK forum.

The change to bog by meter is equal for move and fast or very close to equal. Obviously, that make the chance by time bigger for fast move.

[Slappy]

As Redwolf points out, this has been a topic of nearly endless debate and discussion since the earliest days of CM. Much testing and gnashing of teeth "seems" to have shown that for a given interval of time fast move is more likely to bog but for a given amount of ground covered they are pretty much the same. I tend to think of armor moves in terms of where I need to get, not how long I want to move in a given direction. Thus, I ignore the bog chance and choose the speed appropriate for the tactical situation.

[Colonel J Lee]

The problem with that approach, Slappy (at least in my current case situation) is that a bogged tank that was seeking a promising flanking maneuver, but which boggs behind a building in the process, is no use at all. I have an opportunity to take a "crack" Sherman crew around a building and plunk a Panther from behind which is also bogged. However, the Sherman in front of my "crack" unit just bogged too. So I am leery about continuing this strategy. I guess you have to way your options and gauge whether its worth the risk to do something else. In this case, the option is a suicidal frontal approach. Thanks for the input though. Very helpful facts, if not the tactics. When you get a chance will you look at the CMBO Ambushes thread and answer my last query. THANK YOU.

[Slappy]

Well, it sounds like you are playing in some pretty damp conditions. That's a different story. The question then is not what speed you should go at, but whether you should go at all. In damp and mud, you want to stay on roads whenever possible. Moving around too much over muddy terrain is just begging for a bog. I'd use your armor for something else and try to get a bazooka over to take out your bogged opponent.

[tar]

Of course, the first question you need to ask is whether your opponent's bogged vehicle is actually bothering you. If you can avoid it entirely, then you don't have to worry about destroying it.

[Colonel J Lee]

Good point Tom. In this case, I do need to deal with it as it is parked right next to the main ojbective flag. Otherwise, you make a good point. Slappy, that very Panther just hammered my bazooka team with one round: KIA. Brother! So...I got some figurin' to do.

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Colonel J Lee:

Good point Tom. In this case, I do need to deal with it as it is parked right next to the main ojbective flag. Otherwise, you make a good point. Slappy, that very Panther just hammered my bazooka team with one round: KIA. Brother! So...I got some figurin' to do.

You could try to shock it. Shocked vehicles do not count for victory flag occupation.

But don't cause it to be abandoned if you cannot follow up with forces to the flag. If the formally shocked crew bails out they count for victory flags.

[JasonC]

Any way you can get a tank to a position where the Panther will be hull down to you? If so, distract with a squad moving to 30m, off to one side.

If it doesn't rotate the turret, the squad will approach where no MGs bear and KO it with grenades. If it does rotate the turret, bring your tank shooter into LOS. It will take it a while to crank back over, and a hit vs. a hull down target will usually be the turret.

The side of the turret even a 75mm will kill. The front of the turret (if it manages to turn back that far), a 76mm will kill with tungsten at any range, or with plain AP inside of 200m. This is a way to kill it without needing to get a tank to one of its flanks.

As for trying to leave it alive, too clever by half. The knockout points for it will be worth about as much as the flag. And if you even break the crew, you will get both.

[ March 27, 2004, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Colonel J Lee]

Thanks Jason. A bit of an anticlimactic conclusion to this scenario though....my flanking crew was a "crack" unit. Ironically, a late-arriving Stug fired a round between two closely situated buildings at nearly 700 meters and hit the SHerman just as it passed through a thread-wide position between the two buildings!!! A did try earlier in the scenario to distract with another Sherman which came around a building corner and then reversed. No damage to him, but the Panther did not "bite" and took out the Sherman trying to hit it frontally (through the turret I was hoping as I WAS hull down! I actually got a shot off and it ricocheted. The next round was a Panther round through the front of the Sherman's turret!! What bad luck. However, I had another Sherman busy levelling buildings on the German's flank. He ran up from behind the Panther and hit it in the rear. I actually obtained a major victory in the battle, but it was walking on eggshells from the beginning. With 14 Shermans I just leveled the town and then went in. Did not want to deal with the panzerfaust-toting landsers. THANKS FOR THE INPUT. IT WAS HELPFUL NONETHELESS.