Scouting

[Falcon988]

I'm currently playing the Allied side in an Australian counterattack on Crete. I was moving my company up a hill and fully expected the Germans to have their infantry up there hiding and ready to ambush us. So I split a squad, gave them sneak waypoints, and had them move ahead of the main group to try and detect enemy forces. Whether because of him or not, we encountered 7 German soldiers but the combined fire wiped 'em out (caused 2 casualties to us before they went down).

The issue was that the split squad using the Sneak waypoint kept sneaking even after we'd encountered the enemy. And what's worse is that he was crawling -towards- the enemy, and started taking fire. Even after they'd taken a casualty they still kept sneaking. I was under the impression that units with Sneak orders will stop as soon as they encounter the enemy. So apparently I was wrong.

To that end I want to learn a better tactic for scouting out enemy positions. I don't like to lose my men, so I prefer not to just send units scampering around the map until they get shot at. If I can have a half squad move up a ways, do a little spotting, and withdraw successfully when they make contact it would be great. But how do I do it?

[birdstrike]

(As you're talking about Crete invasion, I suppose you're talking about to CMAK - so I'll refer to this specific game, as there are differences in the way movement orders work in CMBO, CMBB and CMAK)*

Sneak is generally a bad idea for scouting units - as they crawl on the ground and don't have a good field of view.

I generally use the "move to contact" order (hotkey 'E') combined with a "hide" order, so when spotting an enemy, the unit stops moving and takes cover, without attacking the enemy and giving away their position - that is of course only if the enemy has not already spotted them.

Anyway, I think scouting is a dangerous business - you should expect casualities rather than not.

However, when the enemy opens fire on them, you got to keep in mind, that he either is too far away to inflict serious damage, or he is close enough to be identified and been shot at himself.

Try to use scouts as some sort of pointman, if an enemy comes into sight, have enough firepower ready (tanks, artillery) to smoke him out instantly...

*(edited due to helpful hint in other posts to make clear, what game this applies to)

[ January 25, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: birdstrike ]

[flamingknives]

Sneaking troops stop when fired upon in CMBO. To recreate the effect in CMBB and CMAK, you need to use move to contact. If you set up a cover arc then the troops will only stop if fired upon or they spot an enemy within the cover arc.

[Mr. Tittles]

A good idea is to use move to contact and hide (as others say) but try to keep the half squad under the command of a stealthy HQ if possible. This may get them hidden before killed.

[JasonC]

flamingknives has the right answer. The meaning of the term changed from CMBO to CMBB and AK. In BO, "Sneak" is an upright, walking form of movement, ready to stop if enemy are encountered and shoot back at them. The order used to go prone and get from one place to another nearby is "crawl".

In CMBB and AK, there is no "crawl" order. Instead, "sneak" in those games does pretty much what "crawl" did in BO - the unit goes prone and slowly moves a short distance, while being harder to see if in cover (in the open, that part won't matter).

In BB and AK, there are a number of new orders that together take the place of the old "sneak" of BO. If you want a unit to move toward the enemy, but stop if fired on right where the enemy was first encountered, you use "move to contact". MtC without any covered arc will, however, go to ground when there is any contact anywhere on the field - hitting the deck at the first trigger pull.

If you combine it with a covered arc, the unit will only halt if it is fired on itself, or an enemy appears inside its cover arc. MtC with a covered arc where you expect enemy, is the right order for a scout, most of the time.

Old posts may contain movement type advice using the terms from BO. For instance, in BO it was standard procedure to "run" in the open and "move" or "sneak" inside cover. Now, "advance" in the open and "move" or "move to contact" inside cover makes more sense.

It can be confusing. Just make sure when you read a post that you pay attention to which game is being discussed. Most current posts will be about the BB and AK move orders and terms. Older ones, you have to determine from the context (which forum they are in, the date, etc) which game they are talking about.

[Redwolf]

You have two different "sneaks" in CMBB and CMAK: the one you order and the ones the TacAI plots for you - and usually replots if you cancel them. As you found out, the pathfinding in these situations is particulary bad so it is a real problem, both for realism and competitive play.

The only partical solution that BFC introduced in CMBB 1.02 or so is that if you issue a "hide" command then the TacAI is less likely to re-plot one of these draindead auto-sneaks.

[DavidFields]

That was an excellent explanation JasonC. I only own CMBO, and was getting very confused by some of the info on the Boards. Thank you.