Blah Blah Blah Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I am playing the demo, with the battle with the 16 German tanks, against 12 Russian AT guns and various troops. I am working on the assumption that the accuracy of the German tanks over 1500 metres is correct. How do I get them to last longer than a few minutes? How can I set them up to allow them to attack the enemy but be protected? Whilst you would say but them down the slope and just have thier heads up, how can that be done? In so far as, how can I tell much they are showing. Sorry to say, the graphics don't lend to being able to accurately know. I do agree and love the line of site tool and what it represents, however, during the setup phase I and up spending 80% of the entire game time just trying to work out what they can see, and after moving the 1 chap for the 10th time, I have to ask, for the setup only!!! Why did they not have the classic higlighted area representing what can be seen from that spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 -deploy your guns in pairs or batteries. That way you have better chance of getting him before he gets you. Still, keep spaces so that shrapnel doesn't wipe them all at once! -have your location protected by the terrain so that you have a clear LOS to a narrow sector but tanks outside that sector can't target you -try to predict his axis of advance, then place guns on both sides to ambush him, that way he has to expose his flanks and rear and it takes precious time for him to rotate to meet the guns -hide until he's close enough for your guns to have good chances of hit and penetration, but not so close that his MG's will toast you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: I am playing the demo, with the battle with the 16 German tanks, against 12 Russian AT guns and various troops. I am working on the assumption that the accuracy of the German tanks over 1500 metres is correct. How do I get them to last longer than a few minutes? How can I set them up to allow them to attack the enemy but be protected? Whilst you would say but them down the slope and just have thier heads up, how can that be done? In so far as, how can I tell much they are showing. Sorry to say, the graphics don't lend to being able to accurately know. Use the magnification level 1 near where you want to place them. If there is some slight slope in the area, you will find it. If somehting offers concealment or cover in real life, it will do so in CM. Place them in woods, pines, trees - even wheat fields will offer you concealment. Dont't duel it out at 1500metres if you can't penetrate the armor at that distance! Issue "hide" command to your guns. Place covered arcs to define that they only fire at targets in that arc. Once a target appears in that arc, the guns will un-hide. And I 2nd anything the previuous post said. Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nippy Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 - Use the Maxim Machine guns and AT rifle to force the Tanks to button up first before unmasking your AT guns. - Keep your nerve and don't unmask the AT guns while the tanks are too far away. 200 meters or less should be your engagement range. Same goes for AT rifles...flank shots only! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdSober Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: I do agree and love the line of site tool and what it represents, however, during the setup phase I and up spending 80% of the entire game time just trying to work out what they can see, and after moving the 1 chap for the 10th time, I have to ask, for the setup only!!! Why did they not have the classic higlighted area representing what can be seen from that spot. Are you assuming that the average commander in the field had a magical map that told him exactly what could be seen from every 10 square metres of the battlefield? You are being encouraged to think in terms of real life situations, and not use gamey tactics other "classic" games allow. I agree that when you're new to this game, working out what can or cannot be seen from where is very difficult. As a previous person said, getting down to level one, and skimming rapidly over the terrain is a good way to get a feel for possible lines of sight. Another useful tool is the terrain mod with an overlaid grid, which allows you to get a much better idea of slight undulations, and folds in the ground; I don't use it myself, but I've read that a number of people rely on it quite heavily. You will get better at "reading" the terrain as you become more experienced with the game. Trust me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 a successful location (at least against AI) was in valley floor in rocky(?) area. Towards the edge facing 90 deg to road. And tucked around a curve in the hill. So when tanks came down hill they were flank on to guns and only one or two had potential LOS to my position. pumped shot after shot, into tank after tank. Key is to minimize their LOS to you. Usually you fire two shots and if gun is too exposed every tank on the board targets it.. So 'keyhole' them with limited return LOS. Also tucking them also in the equivalent to a 'hull down' position helps as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishu Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 I've noticed the 'hulldown' position being VERY effective, since you cannot hit the ATG's directly. Some Pak 40's front shield is about same size as some tanks turret when hulldown, so go figure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadepm Posted May 8, 2003 Share Posted May 8, 2003 Fishu, what version are you playing with? There is known bug in 1.02 that makes hulldown AT guns all but invincible. This was fixed - to my satisfaction anyway - in 1.03c, which is still in beta. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Blah Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Originally posted by ColdSober: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: I do agree and love the line of site tool and what it represents, however, during the setup phase I and up spending 80% of the entire game time just trying to work out what they can see, and after moving the 1 chap for the 10th time, I have to ask, for the setup only!!! Why did they not have the classic higlighted area representing what can be seen from that spot. Are you assuming that the average commander in the field had a magical map that told him exactly what could be seen from every 10 square metres of the battlefield? You are being encouraged to think in terms of real life situations, and not use gamey tactics other "classic" games allow. I agree that when you're new to this game, working out what can or cannot be seen from where is very difficult. As a previous person said, getting down to level one, and skimming rapidly over the terrain is a good way to get a feel for possible lines of sight. Another useful tool is the terrain mod with an overlaid grid, which allows you to get a much better idea of slight undulations, and folds in the ground; I don't use it myself, but I've read that a number of people rely on it quite heavily. You will get better at "reading" the terrain as you become more experienced with the game. Trust me </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: It is people such as yourself; that normally discourage anyone from staying at forums like these. Which in turn normally end's up with the user not buying the product.And it's people like you - with an obvious chip on their shoulder and inability to listen to answers once you've asked your questions - that probably wouldn't have bought the product to begin with, but nonetheless insist on flinging your bitterness into the ether regarding the fact that CM doesn't let you do everything that (insert name of favourite unrealistic computer game here) lets you do. If you really prefer Steel Panthers, by all means keep playing it. CM isn't Steel Panthers. Good luck in your quest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Blah Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Blah Blah Blah: It is people such as yourself; that normally discourage anyone from staying at forums like these. Which in turn normally end's up with the user not buying the product.And it's people like you - with an obvious chip on their shoulder and inability to listen to answers once you've asked your questions - that probably wouldn't have bought the product to begin with, but nonetheless insist on flinging your bitterness into the ether regarding the fact that CM doesn't let you do everything that (insert name of favourite unrealistic computer game here) lets you do. If you really prefer Steel Panthers, by all means keep playing it. CM isn't Steel Panthers. Good luck in your quest. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 The answer in the demo is that you do not get guns that survive more than a turn or 2 once they're seen! The demo is a good exercise in holding your nerve and being pro-active about stationary tank hunting. Ideally you want to German tanks to all be cresting the ridge beefore the river bed then you hit them all at once from both flanks, the front and rear. AT guns in the rocky areas and woods on hte flanks are good, and 2-3 on hte next ridge cover the front. For the rear shots conceal 2 guns in hte woods to your front/left - almost as far forward as you can. When the tanks have gone a long way past move them out onto a little hillock there (view 1 or 2 will show it to you) and open up. As someone else said - it helps to have the ATRs & Maxims open up a turn earlier to make the tanks button up. When done properly this tactic yeilds such a vast number of hit messages in a short space of time and a small area of the table as to be unreadable!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blah Blah Blah Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Thanks for all the advise. I have done the along the valley wall each side, did reasonably well. Would do better if the 1 sees all see did not exisit. I hope that the Afrika Corps has a AT 'hull down', to get that finite difference between just in view to all in view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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