PK Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Hi all. I've just purchased Hell's Gate by Douglas E Nash which is about the chekassey pocket in Jan 44. It looks good and having reads the first few paragraphs the style looks good too. I was wondering if anyone else here has read the book and have any thoughts on it's quality 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 Yes, I've read this book and it is very good. This man knows what he is writing about. Hope to see more books by this author in the near future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryker Posted July 22, 2003 Share Posted July 22, 2003 I also read it recently. A very good book, I highly recommend it. If you are interested Matrix Games has a new game out soon, Korsun Pocket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Glad to hear you guys enjoyed it and I look forward to reading it myself. I was concerned the author may be sympothetic to the Germans. Stryker, I've heard about the game about the Korsun Paocket and I am a bit curious and would like to play a demo if one is available. As I understand it the game is out quite soon so hopefully there will be a demo soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 I also recommend Hell's Gate: The Battle of the Cherkassy Pocket, Jan-Feb, 1944 by Nash. From the book's dust jacket: "The culmination of years of research and survivor interviews, Hell's Gate is a riveting hour by hour, day by day account of this desparate struggle analyzed on a tactical level through maps and military transcripts, as well as on a personal level, through the words of the enlisted men and officers... etc." It's a somewhat expensive ($65, list price) book, but well worth the price. It covers the whole battle (mostly from the German perspective) from encirclement to breakout and aftermath, from Generals to privates (with lots of maps and photos). Lots of ideas for scenario designers as far as assaults, meeting engagements, combined arms, infantry only, etc. (has actual sketch maps used when recommending soldiers for medals, for outstanding action). Seems to made of high quality material so it can be passed around without fear of damage. I found one picture that may be mis-captioned: page 256 purports to show a "captured Soviet 8.5 cm AT gun manned by troops of the Walloon Brigade" ...but I am no expert/grog on the subject (I know Soviets had 85mm AA gun). Sincerely, Ken (edit for spelling) [ August 11, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: kenfedoroff ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 Originally posted by kenfedoroff: I found one picture that may be mis-captioned: page 256 purports to show a "captured Soviet 8.5 cm AT gun manned by troops of the Wallon Brigade" ...but I am no expert/grog on the subject (I know Soviets had 85mm AA gun).You might be right. I just looked into WW2 Fact Files and it shows 45mm (two models), 57mm, and (wait for it) 100mm. This last baby would, it is claimed here, penetrate 192mm at 450m. It doesn't say 192mm of what or at what angle, but I'd guess that it will do most jobs. Does anybody know if it made it into the game? But no 85mm. Maybe was AA gun pressed into AT service? Michael [ August 11, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Michael Emrys ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenfedoroff Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 The book (Hell's Gate) has other photos that show the Germans had captured Soviet 45mm AT guns as well. In this book (as well as others) it seems that when the Germans had time to set-up a good defensive position, they would augment their firepower with captured Soviet heavy weapons, so even though the German units were under-strength and had lost some of their regular equipment, they were still a tough nut to crack. I'm not sure how captured support weapons would be modeled in a CMBB scenario. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zitadelle Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kenfedoroff: I found one picture that may be mis-captioned: page 256 purports to show a "captured Soviet 8.5 cm AT gun manned by troops of the Wallon Brigade" ...but I am no expert/grog on the subject (I know Soviets had 85mm AA gun).You might be right. I just looked into WW2 Fact Files and it shows 45mm (two models), 57mm, and (wait for it) 100mm. This last baby would, it is claimed here, penetrate 192mm at 450m. It doesn't say 192mm of what or at what angle, but I'd guess that it will do most jobs. Does anybody know if it made it into the game? But no 85mm. Maybe was AA gun pressed into AT service? Michael </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Originally posted by Zitadelle: According to Steven Zaloga in Red Army Handbook: 1939-1945, the Russians formed a number of expedient anti-tank brigades aremed with the 85mm Model 1939 anti-aircraft gun to deal with the new German heavy tanks (PzKW VIE and PzKW V) until a more suitable anti-tank gun was available (paraphrased pp. 219-220). He lists the following anti-tank Regiments and Brigades as using the 85mm gun (pg. 127): Regiments: 08/56 and 08/70 Brigades: 04/132 Just out of curiosity, does he give any dates for when this was done? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 excellent book. I used it for a few scenarios, including "Hitler's Son". I also am doing an action based on Stemmerman's breakout. Frank 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 As I recall, Nash had plenty to say in the Sajer debate... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK Posted August 12, 2003 Author Share Posted August 12, 2003 Thanks guys. Not quite strated it yet, just finishing off An Army at Dawn to find out more about the Med campaign. Francko, it was your excellent scenario which got me interested in the Korsun pocket to start with. Did I hear correctly that a KP scenario pack is to be released or was that just wishfull thinking Either wayI await your next battle wih interest, Micheal Dorosh. It was Sarjar's book which first got me interested in the Eastern front in the first place. I read the book at roughly the same age as the author was portraying himself to be in the book and was blown away by his experinace. I have heard that there's an argument saying that his account is not entirly true but I'm in no postion to argue either case. What did Nash say about it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KG_Cloghaun Posted August 12, 2003 Share Posted August 12, 2003 Hell's Gate is the best book I've ever read covering an event on the Russian Front. I highly recommend it. After reading the book, I spent 6 months recreating it into a playable campaign for the game "Close Combat III", complete with accurate battle and operational breifings. Being new to the world of CMBB, it is my hope to recreate some key engagements that were fought in and around the pocket in the future. http://www.kgcooper.com/kg3/kg3_main.htm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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