Biltong's Campaign Rules - South 41 to 42

[History Buff]

Originally posted by Peterk:

I don't think you can. Try your best to keep them _at_ Veteran so that they help the average battle group experience calculation. Once some more units become veteran too, then you'll be able to make the quality jump.

You can, do it through the Scenario Editor. It allows you to change individual units exp. Then load map and force into the QB Generator. To easy. Oh and you may want to random generate a new map in the scenario editor.

[Peterk]

Any downside to doing it that way? Victory Locations? You get to see the map before you purchase your units, right?

Are most people using the scenario editor?

[Robert Olesen]

Seems to work like a charm.

This ought to do it:

Load up the editor, set the time (and whatever else you need to), create a map of the proper size and type, or load one from the map pack, buy your own battle group units of the proper quality, incl. attached units, save it.

Then start up the quick battle, using the map from the scenario you just saved. Impor tthe units and buy your task force (only). It even makes it easier to keep track of how many points you can use on the task force.

You can ofc. look at the map, but the editing map display (which you get by default) isn't all that easy to use for a tactical plan.

I have one problem: I'm not quite sure how to translate the map size and force size into a proper width and height to be used for the map. I also have that problem with the map pack. Perhaps someone could point me to a good reference? It might be in the manual - I'm about half way through that.

Edit: It seems that you need to create a battel in the editor with no victory flags. You also need to be careful in setting the correct battle type, or the setup zones will be screwed.

[ March 08, 2003, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

Question:

if one of my squads gets to veteran exp level, I could I have one squad as such amid all Reg when buying my Battle Group? :confused:

same if one lowers to green, how to demote for next battle? :confused:

HI S

Note 12 - Generating the Real Battle

You won't be able to buy the HQ/Squad/Team etc. in your Inf. Company at different Experience Settings, so you have to average the Experience for the Company.

Add up the experience of each Co unit: HQ/Squad/Team and divide by number of units. The player determines the Experience level for the company using Appendix A (which follows the Notes section).

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Robert Olesen:

Seems to work like a charm.

This ought to do it:

Load up the editor, set the time (and whatever else you need to), create a map of the proper size and type, or load one from the map pack, buy your own battle group units of the proper quality, incl. attached units, save it.

Then start up the quick battle, using the map from the scenario you just saved. Impor tthe units and buy your task force (only). It even makes it easier to keep track of how many points you can use on the task force.

You can ofc. look at the map, but the editing map display (which you get by default) isn't all that easy to use for a tactical plan.

[snip]

Oh I was doing the reverse. First create the full QB battle then try to load into Editor: it refuses to do it. What puzzles me is that it seems to be working with scenarios coming with the game.

Anyway, that is a nice realism touch being able to track down exactly units experience rather then averaging out.

Peterk: looking at the default view of the map is not big deal. One would just just cheat oneself and would amount to lie when reporting the AAR

:eek:

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Just done through the whole process. Works perfectly!

I can even import the maps from the map pack: set-up zones and flags are the same.

I may buy my Battle group and attached units, set the exact experience (I can even modify the amount of ammunition with respect to Full), save it.

Then generate the QB, use the generated file as one would use e regular map from the Map additions, reply "YES" to "Import Units as Well?" question, buy the support.

Essentially turns the Map additions into ones pre-loaded with exactly your Battle Group. You only have to add the Support units.

That's great: now experience level is tracked down to the single squad/team as per results from the ongoing campaign previous battles.

Cool!

PS

It may looks like micro-management but it is not different from buying your Battle Group into the Quick Battle, only you may edit on a unit base now.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Now, after the previous note on the added realism touch: I am at battle #5 on July 1st.

Is this average speed? Well, it happened I had all previous 4 battles as Total victory so I fough 2 battles a day (used favor to advance the second time as the crazy man in Berlin wanted me to fight the 5th battle on the 24th of JUNE!!! (two the 22, two the 24, the 5th at night)

GIVE ME A BREAK ADOLF!!!! :mad:

[Seahawk-vfa201]

I thought of anoder possible Map additions for all Map editors involved into Biltong's Campaign Rules.

In many case, often after a strongly effective result from either side - one can deal with an immediate attack or counter attack.

Forgive me if I missed something on the map additions. For immediate counter attack I understand one might use the same map understanding that as dealing with an assault on just conquered positions.

I miss though how to realistically (visually) deal with the immediate attack: I'd like to see it as for operations. Part of the just fought battle being the lower side of the new map for the immediate attack: it would be like: Give the enemy no breathing time. Immediate pursuit.

Is this last side of the map addition covered already in any way?

:confused:

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

... Part of the just fought battle being the lower side of the new map for the immediate attack: it would be like: Give the enemy no breathing time. Immediate pursuit.

Is this last side of the map addition covered already in any way?

:confused:

Keep a look out for the Battle of Kiev coming to your PC in the near future

To be announced on this board in the coming week.

Biltong

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

GIVE ME A BREAK ADOLF!!!! :mad:

Not in my nature

In the first couple of weeks of Operation Barbarossa the Germans advanced huge distances. On an average day they would advance until they hit resistance - deal with it and then carry on with the mad rush forward till the next battle.

As you'll notice from the modifiers in Note 1 - Date: "June -3; July -2; Oct -1; Nov -1; Dec -2"

June had the most battles, followed by July and Dec.

Biltong

[Sublime]

Originally posted by SuperSulo:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sublime:

Does the casualty modifier you roll up for your task force also apply to your troops in the battlegroup?

Yes, they do. Roll up 50% and see half of your guys die. Sucks, eh?

I still don't see how you could only get one platoon and one tank in a 1000 pts game.

Did you or the AI assault? How big task force did you roll up? What casualty rate? </font>

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Biltong:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

GIVE ME A BREAK ADOLF!!!! :mad:

Not in my nature

In the first couple of weeks of Operation Barbarossa the Germans advanced huge distances. On an average day they would advance until they hit resistance - deal with it and then carry on with the mad rush forward till the next battle.

Biltong </font>

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Question for Biltaid tool:

The next battle sees support unit casualty: NONE. If I go instead to my Battle group some units do not have full men. Shall I reduce the number of men in unit with the editor? ie take casualty into account in there?

Or is my battle group full as casualty parameter is none nonetheless?

:confused:

[Peterk]

The Casualty setting is what you put into CMBB Quick Battle - for any number over 0%, CMBB will eliminate some units or men (you have no control over this). Biltong 2.1 says to treat these casualties as though they are combat casualties, even though you never get to use them in the battle.

Units that Biltaid shows as having < the maximum number of men are depleted and should not participate in the battle. If you make a print out of the battle, there is a note saying they are depleted. I know you're not doing printouts because you're using 2 screens so you're not seeing that message. For those units, you move them off the board on turn 1.

[Peterk]

...also that's one thing you won't be able to do by using the scenario editor method. Axis casualty level.

How are you handling it History Buff?

[Peterk]

Disaster has struck early in the history of Kampfgruppe Kossits

Battle #1 - Meeting Engagement in hilly open terrain, won easily.

Battle #2 - Headquarters requests immediate followup. Axis assault up a steep hill. Open terrain. Pillboxes at top of hill cannot be dispatched. Major Loss.

Battle #3 - A week later. Sent out to capture bombed out village. Terrain flat as a pool-table with no cover other than craters. Given no artillery support but 4 auxilliary tanks 4 fighters and 2 Stukas supporting. Enemy has a MG pillbox which could not be dispatched. Also 3 large AT guns clustered together in a small group of scattered trees cannot be knocked off their guns. Friendly air forces spend 80% of their fire on friendly troops.

Major loss with grievous casualties.

Battle #4 - Russians counter-attack survivors with appx 6:1 advantage in men. Very little additional support provided. 5% of my force staggers off map after resisting wildly, the rest are killed or captured. Company command falls into enemy hands. Tactical loss.

Group continues with mostly conscript replacements.

Anyone else getting nailed badly by these rules???

If anyone is using Biltaid, I've fixed a few serious bugs relating to multiple emergency replacements and HQ demise. Also, the large battle rule has been added in. I'll probably be releasing v1.0.2 tomorrow so keep an eye out if you're interested.

[Sripe]

Hey Peterk, just wanted to say thanks!

I enjoy the heck out of Biltaid and I'm glad to see that it will soon incorporate large battles. Biltaid really makes advancing through the campaign a breeze, at least red tape wise, though I too find myself advancing on a town with flat, treeless, bombed out terrain much more than I'd like. Oh the pain of the rapid advance!

One bug(?) I've noticed though is that for some battles I'm alloted Ski troops for my task force...

Any chance of building in a stat keeper in the future? It would be interesting to see squad casualties, as well as the damage they've dished out, over time.

Thanks again to you, and to Master Biltong, for the effort put forth to entertain poor schleps like myself. Cheers!

Reed

[Peterk]

> Hey Peterk, just wanted to say thanks!

> I enjoy the heck out of Biltaid

Glad you like it. It's lots of fun to work on.

> One bug(?) I've noticed though is that for some > battles I'm alloted Ski troops for my task

> force...

If it happens before October it's a bug. After October, it's in the rules. Let me know.

> Any chance of building in a stat keeper in the > future?

There will definitely be a player history with the basic battle results added in. Tracking squads? I don't know. There's so much churning due to the replacements, I don't know if it would be very interesting. I'll think about it though.

[EasyCo]

Anyone else getting nailed badly by these rules???

Oh ya! I thought I was bad..

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Peterk:

Units that Biltaid shows as having < the maximum number of men are depleted and should not participate in the battle. If you make a print out of the battle, there is a note saying they are depleted. I know you're not doing printouts because you're using 2 screens so you're not seeing that message. For those units, you move them off the board on turn 1.

I feared you would have said that

I guess this next battle is going to be tougher: I have a full platoon depleted.

But going strongly the same: All the Way to Moscow. Deutschland Uber Alles!!!!!!!!

[Biltong]

Originally posted by Peterk:

The Casualty setting is what you put into CMBB Quick Battle - for any number over 0%, CMBB will eliminate some units or men (you have no control over this). Biltong 2.1 says to treat these casualties as though they are combat casualties, even though you never get to use them in the battle.

Units that Biltaid shows as having < the maximum number of men are depleted and should not participate in the battle. If you make a print out of the battle, there is a note saying they are depleted. I know you're not doing printouts because you're using 2 screens so you're not seeing that message. For those units, you move them off the board on turn 1.

Hi Peter,

Moving Depleted units off the map only happens after an Emergency Reorganization - and then only after the reorganization has 'filled up' as many units as possibble. If you had to move depleted units off the map when the casualty setting is high, you'll be left with nothing to play with... this might account for your bad losses.

Changed Note 5 - Casualties to make this clear:

"Handle partial units such as men missing in a HQ, squad or team missing from the initial setup because of the Casualties (23) parameter like normal casualties of combat: MIA//frostbite/gonorrhea etc. etc. They still take part in the battle!"

BTW - if you go into battle with seriously depleted units (after an emergency reorg) it is sometimes better to run in stead of to stand & fight - just as in real life Set ambushes with fall back positions - fire for a minute or 2 - not longer! and fall back - keep this up and you'll pile up the Allied bodies and get away with a vic. Better to give away some favor and keep your men alive (not lose their exp).

Biltong

[ March 09, 2003, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Biltong ]

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by Seahawk-vfa201:

But going strongly the same: All the Way to Moscow. Deutschland Uber Alles!!!!!!!!

This is the south front, not the central front. You're not going to Moscow

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by Peterk:

...also that's one thing you won't be able to do by using the scenario editor method. Axis casualty level.

To be precise: The editor allows you to specify up to 60% casualties on all units except vehicles. It does not allow 50% casualties, and there does not seem to be a way to edit the number of men in individual units. It also takes causalties on every unit and does not eliminate any, as does the QB generator. So that is a problem. It can work - sort of - up to 60% casualties by rolling an availability die for each vehicle, but not at 50%.

Also you have to edit the ammo level of each unit if it isn't full.

Edit:

I tried making a QB with the battle group at 50% casualties and 50% ammo and save it both at setup and at the first turn. The intention was to load it in the editor to edit the experience of some units and then use it as a basis for the next QB. But alas, the editor apparently does not read the unit nor map info when it loads a savegame. That's probably a safeguard against cheating in pbem.

[ March 09, 2003, 05:27 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Peterk:

...also that's one thing you won't be able to do by using the scenario editor method. Axis casualty level.

How are you handling it History Buff?

Depleted unit can be handled if they are not HQ units. removing a depleted squad/team can be done.

[Seahawk-vfa201]

Originally posted by Biltong:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Peterk:

...Depleted. [...] For those units, you move them off the board on turn 1.

Hi Peter,

Moving Depleted units off the map only happens after an Emergency Reorganization - and then only after the reorganization has 'filled up' as many units as possibble.

[...]

Note 5 - Casualties to make this clear:

"Handle partial units such as men missing in a HQ, squad or team missing from the initial setup because of the Casualties (23) parameter like normal casualties of combat: MIA//frostbite/gonorrhea etc. etc. They still take part in the battle!"

BTW - if you go into battle with seriously depleted units (after an emergency reorg) it is sometimes better to run in stead of to stand & fight - just as in real life

[...]

Biltong </font>