Guess I'm too dumb to learn this game:(

[JasonC]

3 weeks since he got his answers, and two since Thanksgiving. Still no peep. I'm still thinking "troll", perhaps from some competitor even, trying to make CM look harder than it is.

[sturmgrenadier]

Fellow Gamers,

I want to deeply apologize for not penning you a line to let you know how I was getting on with things. When I posted my frustrated query, I did not expect and was greatly moved by how gracious so many posters were in responding so quickly, providing a deluge of useful information/suggestions. (I was afraid no one would bother to reply; you sure are a friendly lot) I feel like a jackass for asking for help and then having my studies, work and a rather serious illness in my family (father diagnosed with the big 'C') conspire to deprive me of any time for gaming over the past five weeks plus. I know that they all amount to excuses though in the end and that i shouldn't have asked them if I were not certain that I would be able to make the time committment at the time.

As it is, just two days ago(coinciding not so coincidentally with the end of finals week), I was able to devote a long block of time trying to solve my display problem and will be able to spend my free time for the next month to trying to figure out the game a little. I tried some of the suggestions such as adjusting my desktop resolution and then finding and deleting the 'preference file', but alas nothing was still making any appreciable difference in the quality of the game resolution. I also took heed of a couple of posters' warning that my perspective/zooming might be out of whack, but ditto, that was not the cause. It was really frustrating, because after deleting the 'preference' file and restarting the game, it kept defaulting to asking me if I wanted to accept a 800x600 (not the exact dimensions) and the suggested resolutions only became coarser from there! I have an ATI Radeon X700 PRO (a decent, card-at least I was told so), so I could not fathom why it was not starting with a higher resolution such as 1200X1024? Dejected, I finally found the problem/solution: The driver/software package that was installed when I installed this video card (it originally came with an X300) has this interface 'Multimedia Center/Hydravision,etc.' where you can set the resolution of your monitor. It was apparently default set to 800x600 and thus when running the game for the first time, I guess it was starting at that when testing resolutions. I had no idea that desktop resolution settings(accessed from within windows) is apparently something different altogether from resolution control settings accessed directly through your graphic card's software? At any rate, I was enthralled to finally see images akin to the screenshots that I have seen on line. The game looks great and I can finally play it! The neatest thing was seeing how the tanks were now detailed enough that they closely resembled pictures of models in some of the books I've read. I felt like a kid opening presents on Christmas morning! I've played a few scenarios and I'm really still feeling things out. So, again thank you and if I haven't alienated everyone yet, i was hoping to throw a few more things out there:

One quibble/question I am hoping someone can answer: how do you eliminate a movement order that has already been plotted(I know that you can move around the waypoints by clicking on them, but how do you cancel them altogether?I guess I should be more careful before I plot in the first place so that I don't wind up with waypoints going back and forth over the same place). How do you cancel any target/move or other order once you have brought up the line on the screen for that matter? Also, isn't there any way to get your mouse pointer to reveal the height of the land as you move over it, not just when you are targeting an enemy with the line? I don't have a very good eye for telling the contour of the land (eg. where the land rises, slopes). I hate sending a mortar to what I thought was a nice high hill and then he still can't LOS through anything:( One last thing, how come when I played this short scenario that is very tank heavy(Russians set up ambush in and around a town. Tigers/Kingtigers vs. IS-2's) Germans beat the crap out of me even though pretty close range and I always face him with front of my tanks? He destroy eight of my is-2's and I only immobolize one Kingtiger? I thought these two tank models fairly evenly matched historically, especially at close range, when armor and penetrating power become virtually meaningless, no? Is this just the luck element/uncertainty factor of combat or am I missing something? Please forgive my cursory and incomplete knowledge of World War II vehicles/guns.

[John Kettler]

sturmgrenadier,

Welcome back! Am sorry your travails have been so great, and a parent with cancer (lost Mom to pancreatic cancer in 93, so can relate) certainly qualifies. It's sad but true that real life can and does interfere with our highly enjoyable (and highly addictive) pastime. We've even had people drop out of hotly contested tournaments because of real life events.

Am glad you can actually see the game in its considerable glory, and many creative and generous souls have spent cubic hours to provide us with a slew of mods as well for everything imaginable. One guy's hard at work as I write this on a radical mod to allow us to play the Polish invasion (search forum under Fall Weiss).

The opposite of move is Halt, and it cancels ALL waypoints. If you want to remove just one, select and Backspace or Delete (am on Mac so my keyboard probably differs from yours). It's easy to forget to let up the button while issuing commands, so you're hardly alone. "X" cancels a target, but Return resets a selected artillery target to what it was before. There is NO way to read terrain height with the LOS tool. You have to learn to read terrain contours by eye, which sometimes means getting down to ground level (looking directly above troops, vehicles, armor, etc.)

Don't make this harder on yourself than it has to be. Play the Tutorial, read the walkthrough of same in the manual, study the Hotkeys (button's active when playing the game; Appendix A in manual) and learn the commands (Appendix B in the manual). Learn when to do what, or expect lots of casualties until learning by death occurs as you meanwhile unwittingly massacre your pixel force.

Mortars, as a general rule, should NOT be set up on a hill, but behind it, unless dug in or entrenched. Too exposed! Instead, use an HQ in command radius to spot for the mortar. As for your unfortunate deStalinization, the King Tiger is very tough, but not very fast. It does, though,

have a significant rate of fire advantage over the Stalin because it uses one piece ammo instead of a separately loaded shell/shot and cartridge casing holding the propellant. They probably have the accuracy edge as well, thanks to better optics. If you're in ambush (playing against AI?),

position your tanks so as to keyhole likely German advance routes, preferably while firing from the flanks. Use Cover Armor arcs and set them close (few hundred meters), to prevent premature revelation of your tanks' positions, and make sure they cover each other. Will leave the rest up to you. The game models in detail terminal ballistics, to include kinetic energy at strike, angle of strike, penetrator shape, nature, hardness, quality of penetrator, type of armor hit, armor hardness, armor quality, etc. And yes, luck does play a part, too.

You don't provide details, but Shift D will show you details of armor hits when switched on. You may've had a string of glacis armor hits on the KTs (6" thick and steeply sloped, never mind off angle), while getting hit in thinner or more vertical armor on your Stalins, or it could've been a number of weak spots got hit, for these are modeled in the game, too.

Welcome aboard!

Regards,

John Kettler

[JasonC]

Glad you are for real and welcome back.

At close range, every shot from the monster 88L71 gun in the King Tiger will penetrate any plate of the IS-2. The reverse is not true - you need side or front turret hits, while upper front hull can and will bounce. Also, the rate of fire of the smaller caliber 88mm is significantly better than the 122mm, so they often get 2 shots to your 1.

A partial solution to that is to try to remain exposed only during the actual shot, not during the reload, by using the "shoot and scoot" order. That plots 2 waypoints - a fast move to the midpoint, a short halt to fire, then a fast move onward or a reverse. You want the second waypoint out of LOS of Tigger.

The other Achilles heal of the KT to know and love is its fairly slow turret traverse. Get 'em from a side, make 'em turn, then pop a different tank out at them from another direction the following minute. If the gun is always turning rather than trained, it won't be firing and killing all your tanks. To figure out which way it is pointing before your tank comes into view, scout by putting infantry in the cover your tank hides behind.

As for the lay of the land, look around from viewpoint 2. Also, use the LOS tool to sight from each of your units. You should notice "kinks" in the LOS line when it crosses a low contour.

[John Kettler]

JasonC's right about the amazing penetration of the 88 L/71. If memory serves, the Russians found in firing trials at Kubinka that at close range the 88

was firing clear through the turrets of the target tanks, which I believe were IS-2s. Full details used to be up at www.battlefield.ru, but that particular part may or may not be available now and if available, may only be in Russian.

Regards,

John Kettler

[sturmgrenadier]

John and Jason,

Thanks for accepting my apology and still being willing to help me. John, not to get sappy, I really apreciated and was affected by your sharing that you lost a parent to cancer. In my father's case, he smoked for thirty years, quit fifteen years ago, but still was diagnosed with lung cancer this year. I am guardedly hopeful though because he is getting his treatment at Johns Hopkins, which I understand is a cutting-edge hospital/university research center and the doctors give him a 2 out of 3 chance of living five years. Anyway, thaks or your kind words of understanding And sorry, I didn't mean to get too personal/clog up the page with non-game stuff. To business then...

Wow! I expected some good tactical/general play advice(and I got plenty of it from you guys in your last posts), but getting the history lesson was a big bonus! Folks like you humble me; I thought that I knew a decent amount about World War II,specifically the eastern front, but I realize just how little I really know. I put into use your tip on 'hugging the ground' to get a feel for the land and although it was initially disorienting, I am already finding it to be a very useul tool. You just can't tell the contours looking from above. I played the tutorial where you play the Russians trying to take the hill/pine forest and had an easy time of it. I'm also rededicating myself to reading the manual more; if it relects my college studying, I really need to read things several times to absorb it; one time just isn't enough. As dumb as it sounds, I was beginning to feel a bit 'cocky' after winning a few scenarios, but then I realized a lousy pattern in my play: I only win on battles designed for my side to play on the defensive (the enemy basically comes to me). In having to attack or even meeting engagements, I fare abysmally. Thaks for the tips about that King Tiger/Is-2 scenario and the explanation. I've put it on the backburner or now reasoning that maybe I need to learn the rudiments of simpler, less advanced weaponry first. I played the 'early Wittman' scenario as the Soviets. I thought things were going well-I was advancing steadily without any opposition, but then WHACK! Within two minute movies, nine of my tanks lay burning! And someone/some vehicle I couldn't see was shooting me from behind (I thought that I had basically cleared the area but I guess the forests leave a lot of hiding places). At any rate, it was fun and a learning experience. One map that I really want to pick your brains on, though, is called something like 'A meeting not ...II' or something like that. I've played it several times as RUssians and it is a tough nut to crack. I have a wealth of these T-26 tanks, which way outnumber the Germans PZ III's. The problem is that the PZ III is apparently way superior to the T-26 in armor and cannon range. Granted I am a new player, but I think it is still embarrasing to score only a measly kill against a non-tank vehicle while the computer kills upwards of 12 to 15 of mine. He can and usually does knock my tanks out with one or two shots from well across the screen. I have to get practically point blank to have any chance of killing his and it usuallly is only one shot before I die. I've tried going straight north along the road with some of my tanks and sweeping around the northwest with some others, but always the same result: I can never get close enough before my tanks areturned to wrecks. Can you give me some pointers on how to combat an enemy with such superioirty in its tanks? I read that in real history when the enenmy's tanks were superior but fewer in number, you try to come at them in more than one direction, but alas I haven't had any luck.

ALso, how can I make better use of 'tank hunter teams'. They just seem to die when tanks approach before they can use their weapons. Are they basically cannonfodder that I should only expect to score a very rare, lucky kill? I put them in hide mode, but no luck, still shot up. I promise the last question for now: comment on how to place and utilize anti-tank rifle teams. I have only found them to be use at hurting half-tracks from medium range at the right angle. And do machine guns and rifle fire have any effect on some, non-tank vehicles or should they only be used against infantry? The computer lets me target them but I don't know if they are doing any damage:no kill stats are displayed for like shooting tank cannons. Again, thanks for your time fellas.

Richard

[JasonC]

Haven't played that one, but it has a poor reputation as hopelessly unbalanced. The Russians are in T-26s, their crappiest tank from the start of the war. The Germans are in Pz III Js with 50L42, their best in 1941. The small and heavily wooded map restricts movements to only a couple routes, easily stoppered by a Panzer each, preventing maneuver for flank shots.

Not having played it, it is hard to say more at the moment. In general, in a situation like that I rely on the infantry to clear the edge of cover and tell me what is waiting, and only risk the tanks if or when I see a chance to get out to cover or get off a flank shot using "shoot and scoot". If neither is available I'll just go defensive, ready to ambush the superior enemy vehicles with flank shots if they try to enter my own cover. If that means not getting some flag, so be it. I won't give him my tanks as well.

On tank hunters, they work best from a hidden ambush and require a range of about 30m for close assault, 35m for their (frankly wimpy) Molotov cocktails. Later on those come with the vastly superior RPG AT grenade and can actually kill things reliably at 40m. But that isn't until June 1943 and does not apply to this one.

To get shots without being spotted, you need to remain in cover, typically using a 30m to 40m covered arc (180 degrees), whatever is the range of the AT weapon. Without those they will fire their submachineguns at unbuttoned tanks, trying to get the exposed tank commander, and show themselves prematurely as a result.

Hide can help but only working with cover. In brush or similar 50% exposure terrain, a tank will generally spot them before the range falls to infantry AT, point blank figures, even on "hide". In woods on the other hand or inside a house, a tank can fail to see them at just a few meters distance, if they are hiding, stationary, and haven't fired.

If you need to move to close the range, you want to remain upright only when deep enough there is no LOS (behind a house e.g., or 25m or so back in full woods or pines). After that, sneak is your best bet, still inside cover. If the tank is buttoned and not facing in your direction, you can try a short "assault" order to reach the edge of cover and throw. Don't step into the open, that just gets them seen and killed by the tank's machineguns.

The ranges are short enough you have to think in terms of chokepoints, where enemy tanks have to pass very close to covered locations you can reach.

All infantry can do this, attacking with their Molotovs or "ordinary grenades" (really, close assault). The latter are far more effective. They will only try it after their Molotovs are used up, though, or if they don't have any. (A trick there is to split a squad with only one. One of the half squads will be "Molotov free" and better for an immediate close assault).

They can't be pinned, which means they can't be under fire. Which in practice means either they are undetected in cover or several approach the tank from multiple directions in the same minute, all ending inside cover and within 30m. Not easy, obviously. That is why most tank kills come from towed guns or other tanks.

Sounds to me though like you are getting burned by diving in to obscure scenarios about specific and uninteresting topics, when you should first learn vanilla stuff. Start a quick battle and choose your own forces. Stick with one side, and add items gradually, keeping those you learn how to use reasonably well. Worry about learning all unit types and diving in to deep-end situations later.

On noticing you win when defending, it is a specific weakness of the AI (computer opponent), that is does not attack very well. Unless it has several tanks better than anything you have. You should move on to meeting engagements next. You will find other limitations of the AI there, but learn some things along the way about confident movement and about scouting, especially. When you've got that, try attacking against an AI defense that uses the Infantry force type - men and guns, but no tanks. A bit easier and you won't face the "attacking superior armor" bit, which is the hardest role.

(Attacking vs. enemy armor you can beat isn't easy, and defending against enemy armor that is much better than yours is non-trivial. But attacking vs. superior armor is the hardest thing against the AI. It can sit and shoot and do OK, especially if you make mistakes. It doesn't tax it so much, intellectually speaking).

Once you find you readily beat the AI, try special situations against it to learn particular tactics, or start a human game. Humans are a whole different level. The AI is good enough to teach you game mechanics, but don't play it exclusively for too long (a month or two is OK). It'll give you bad habits, relying on definite weaknesses of the AI (only), which we affectionately call "stupid AI tricks".

PS Paragraphs are your friends. It is much easier to read a long post if you break it up into paragraphs.

[ December 19, 2005, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[John Kettler]

sturmgrenadier,

If you'll E-mail me privately (see my Profile), I'll send you some info which may help your dad. As for helping you with the game, that's what we do here. You committed no offense or transgression against any of us, so why wouldn't we?

Regards,

John Kettler

[madDdog67]

One thing that will be extremely helpful (and fun to boot) is to design several small training scenarios for yourself, to illustrate how do some basic things like knock out an infantry gun, or take out a machine gun. This game has one of the best and easiest to use scenario editors ever...just set the size of the battle...I recommend dropping it down to about 400x400...hit the "autogenerate" button, adjust the setup areas to your liking, then place the units...it's that simple.

Put one machinegun in the open, dug in,and give yourself a couple of squads to attack with. See what happens. Play it once or twice, then add a mg of your own...then a mortar, etc. Put the mg you're attacking in different terrain, like woods or a building. Once you can knock out 1 MG easily, then throw in another one, or an enemy mortar. Do all of this with FOW off for a while, then put it on so you can see the AI behavior.

As you play, you can see the effects of additional firepower being put on the target, and what it does to the defenders (ie, how long before they "run away" lol). Do this with MGs, mortars, tanks, etc.

When you've designed your scenario, before you start your assault, hit the 1 key, and get that down and dirty view...try to find blind spots that you can exploit to the target...using the terrain is a very important part of this game.

Always keep these scenarios small, and just play around. I had a blast doing this, and learned a good bit about the game/interface in the process.

One tip in setting up a scenario like this is to padlock the defender...that way, he'll always be where you left him when you designed the scenario!

Also, don't be afraid to play it "hotseat", so you can give orders to *both* sides, and you can really see how everything works.

Just remember to keep these scenarios very small...you don't want to overwhelm yourself at the beginning. To tell you the truth, I don't really like a battle that's any bigger than small, and almost all of the stuff I design for myself is tiny...so play it at your own pace, no one says you have to play it on a grand scale with hundreds of units.

If it wasn't for the 17 hard drive reformats I've done since I designed my training scenarios, I could send you some lol. Blame Bill Gates!

[juan_gigante]

Use the JasonC scenarios! They cover all sorts of situations and give many handy lessons! There's a link somewhere around to download them, or ask Jason and he'll probably send them.

Jason, it might be convienient if you had the link to download right in your sig.

[Yskonyn]

I agree, Jason it would be nice if you had em in your sig.

Great idea about making ur own scenario's! I am amazed I've never even thought of that myself!

Thumbs up for you, MadDdog!

Sturm, I am very sorry about the illness in your family. I wish you all the best.

[sturmgrenadier]

Hey folks,

Thanks for the ideas and well wishes. I had no concept that quick battles/self-designed scenarios could be so useful in learning the game. I'll have to give it a try. I guess as a new player, it is so tempting for me to indulge myself in playing the historical,pre-fabbed scenarios, because they are so interesting (the briefings and historical context, etc.). I had assumed that these were the 'flagship' scenarios of the game that had been well-researched and designed by the developers. It never occurred to me that some of them might be flawed/unbalanced.

Sorry for not replying sooner, John and Jason, I just arrived in Northern Virginia late last night after a tumultuous day of air travel. I eventually made it to Dulles Airport which is more than I can say for my checked suitcase whose last reported whereabouts were in Indianapolis (site of my last connection). United is still hunting it down. I can do without most of my smelly, old clothes, but they better find my CMBB disc. I probably should have just left it at home as I doubt I would have much time to play anyway during my visit. Such is life. Note to self: making copies costs a few pennies. Do it next time just in case. LOL. Best holiday wishes and happy gaming to all.

[Brent Pollock]

[spoiler alert...although the Op is so old it hardly warrants it]

Now, now, don't lie by ommission; in The Bitter End, you also get about 1 or 2 arty FOs per company, with a fiar swack being 120-152 mm. That Op is all about blasting the beejeesus out of the Germans using heavy duty barrages and then some smoke screens from the small calibre stuff...and do not forget the three(?) T-34 platoons, one of which is OT-34s. The greatest danger to Soviet troops in that one is mistaken air attacks.

Whacking great fun - I highly recommend it.

Originally posted by Sublime:

I did the marching in a straight line thing on 'The Bitter End' Stalingrad scenario as the Soviets once and won a major victory.. lol