The Morale Model is RETARDED...

[Vark]

Talking of a section/squad, what role does the commander of such units play in CM? Platoon HQs confer advantages (interestingly no disadvantages) in a very basic fashion, ie combat/morale etc, but what of the strategic corporal/sergeant? How is their vital role simulated in the game, or is their effect already accounted for in the hidden game mechanics?

For example, is a veteran squad counted as veteran because of the section/squad leaders abilities or is it simply that a majority of the squad is veteran ability? If the former, does that mean a section commander can raise the overal value of his troops? For example a veteran section commander can upgrade his green troops so they are regulars, in game terms. If the latter, is there a difference between various veteran sections, or is it cookie-cutter modeling (quite understandable given the limitations of the system CM uses).

Finally, what is the role of the 2ic of a section, given the fragility of half squads, are they simulated in anyway or is that too complex to simulate?

I'm having trouble with my damn paras again (they are at it again John) and need to know if I have to adjust my tactics more to fit the CM simulation, ie using platoons as super squad leaders.

p.s. To preempt any "it's been covered before doh!" comments please give a link and I'll read the info, thanks.

[jtcm]

What's the range of canister ? Fired at a HMG in support ? Either the HMG was at perilously short range, or the canister flew at the assault, since no gun would (I think) fire canister at a HMG 200m away.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by jtcm:

What's the range of canister ? Fired at a HMG in support ? Either the HMG was at perilously short range, or the canister flew at the assault, since no gun would (I think) fire canister at a HMG 200m away.

Just the other day I had a 76.2mm ZiS-3 elevate itself to 80 degrees or somesuch and lob a cannister round down range. I'll have to load up the game and see exactly what the range was.

[Andreas]

They fire cannister at absurd ranges if you give a fire order and they have run out of HE, even if they still have AP.

PEBKAS.

All the best

Andreas

[Hensworth]

There are indeed some cooky elements in the equation here, which makes it all the more important to see that video if we are to understand exactly what happened.

Canister can get pretty weird in that the AI will fire it at units which are way too far, not to mention inside buildings. Other times the situation just screams for canister to be used and the unit won't do it.

Likewise, infantry units can go annoyingly haywire in wheatfields. I think it's because they have concealment when they're prone, but never any cover.

[MeatEtr]

You guys do realise this kid won't change his mind no matter how you try and explain it(7 pages worth now). The more he talks, the more obvious it becomes of his inexperience(noobness) with the CM games.

Once again, the morale model for the CM games is not retarded, it's just threads like this that are.

[John Kettler]

squatdog,

I think you may be confused about something I said

regarding how morale works in CM. When a unit comes under fire, or is ordered to do something it perceives as risky, the first morale related test is whether the unit is in effective command (red line to nearby HQ). This is a key input into everything that follows, for units not in command are inherently brittle, and the only work around available is that if out of command, such units need to be of probably Veteran or better if you hope to accomplish anything with them. Only after the first test is applied and passed do the HQ mods, if any, factor in, and these may or may not interact with the unit's current orders, casualty status, fatigue state and fitness level.

Thus, in a very real sense, it matters not whether the HQ has any mods, for simply by being there and in command radius, it exerts a strong morale reinforcing effect. HQs with mods in the right categories, though, can and do get their subordinates to do things they almost certainly wouldn't do otherwise. They can command over larger areas, keep the men quiet,not reveal their firing positions or move men stealthily, help them deliver more effective fire, or simply steel them to endure the unbearable and fight on regardless.

Hope this helps!

Regards,

John Kettler

[TheVulture]

You can get an idea of the effect of being out of command by looking at command delays. There are happy little charts and tables on various websites of the command delays for a unit of a given experience level and given leadership HQ modifier.

A +1 command HQ will make a regular (in command) unit respond as quikly as a veteran unit (in command) under an HQ with no command bonus. And will make a green unit respond as quickly as a regular.

Being out of command drops the unit 2 levels - a regular, out of command unit responds as quickly as a conscript, in command one (with no bonuses).

It's easy to see for command delays - effective level is -2 for out of command, or +0/+1/+2 for in command. I assume something pretty much the same happens for morale as well. A veteran unit out of command of their HQ will break as easily as a green unit in command of a normal HQ, or a conscript unit under an HQ with a +1 command modifier.

Even elite units out of command are pretty fragile. Anything else will not cope with incoming fire at all.