Louie the Toad Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 In CMBO I have only worked with an 88 once before. This one just came up from reserves during an operation so I have a chance to place it. Cant move after that. Except for some blocked lines of sight it can range the map. Is it better to give it a wide arc so it can quickly traverse and cover the field or give it a keyhole. Here are my choices for terrain: On a reverse slope in scattered trees or in woods or behind these but in open ground (shooting thru scattered trees) In open ground but on a reverse slope so as 'hull down' for a gun as I can get it. On a forward slope in scattered trees, or in woods. On a crest in tall pines right in the corner of the map. On a crest in woods. I expect to face enemy tanks, guns and mortars. My inclination is for a broad arc. On a reverse slope and thru scattered trees (woods if possible) but not actually in the woods or trees. Although the tall pines crest in the corner seems interesting. Playing the AI so gameyness is not an issue. Looking for the 'good ground' .... Toad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrii Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 Too hard to tell without screenie. Post one, if you can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I'm not sure, but here are some suggestions: I've had limited success with setting guns up 'hull down'. I don't think the engine really affords them the advantages that they would really get. I prefer to have the gun in some sort of cover. Again, I think that the engine dosen't give full credit for intervening trees in comparison to occupying trees, particularly for morale effects. The only exception here is on board mortars, which a human would eat you alive with. I know that keyholing is the correct answer, but with an 88, I just can't stand the possibility that nothing might come through that hole. I tend to go with a wider field the larger the gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted March 2, 2003 Author Share Posted March 2, 2003 Slappy, You hit on something that I have wondered about. Specifically, how does the game engine treat a unit in the open but sighting from behind scattered trees (or woods for that matter) as opposed to being in the trees. Tree.. Toad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigrii Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 A unit in open behind trees has degraded LOS thorugh them (and so does a unit targeting it) but it doesn't get any woods protection or concealment bonuses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Carrot Posted March 2, 2003 Share Posted March 2, 2003 I have always found it better to be in the cover rather than behind. If you are behind your hit chances suffer, and while the returning fire is also degraded the incoming HE does not need to be as accurate as the outgoing AP. Oh and I don't think the gun will travese quickly anywhere. It is very heavy and hard to turn. So keyholing should be the way to go. My two cents 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Guns do benefit from 'hull down' placement, although in a way slightly different from tanks. If you set up a gun (or any other weapon, for that matter) just behind a crest so that the very top of the rise is in front of it, but it can still see over it (also known as the 'fighting crest'), a high proportion of DF HE rounds targetted at it will either (1) impact the rise in front of it, or (2) fly overhead and impact well behind the gun's position. The net result is that the gun is much less likely to be taken out by 'near misses', especially of larger shells. As far as I can tell, though, 'hull down' position for a gun does little or nothing to portect guns from small arms or mortar fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 YankeeDog, I like the idea of near misses .. missing, overhead or into the forward slope of the hill. I was not thinking....... setting up on the reverse slope reduces the direct fire HE blast radius result which I like to use vs the enemy. When I have a unit that can fire HE but I cant quite acquire the target, often I will try area fire to get the blast radius close enough to cause some kind of effect on the enemy. The reverse slope is a cover defense against that very tactic. Answering my own question.... Toad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 You should usually place guns at the forward edge of LOS-restricting terrain. The more scattered trees/woods/tall pines are between the gun and the target, the darker the LOS line and the lower the hit chance. And a reduced to-hit probability hurts the gun more than the tank because the tank only needs near misses to knock out the gun, and I haven't noticed a decrease in accuracy when area targeting with tanks. Dschugaschwili 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecumseh Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Originally posted by Louie the Toad: On a reverse slope in scattered trees or in woods Ya games probably over now, but that's the one i'd go for. Against the AI a reverse slope is great - not so good against a human player because they will use arty. The best place is behind a wall, all other things being equal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 No, you should not place this gun. That's what the enemy expects. [Edit: blew the joke by ommitting a word, it's friday evening] [ March 07, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie the Toad Posted March 7, 2003 Author Share Posted March 7, 2003 redwolf, I don't understand your post. Toad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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