Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 What exactly does the SS stand for and the word 'Waffen' and on a further note the SA and why were the SA wiped out by the SS in the 30's. I only ask this as i have seen some posts and some peopel seem to have a extensive knoglagew of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 You can find all this out and more at the following URL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 SA = Sturmabteilung = "storm group", the brown-shirted hooligans who terrorised political enemies, labour activists and ethnic minorities SS = Schutzstaffel = "defense group", a unit formed initially for Hitler's personal protection Waffen-SS = "weapons-SS" = volunteer military units, later in the war many of them consisted of foreigners SA was annihilated because of Hitler's fears of a coup by them, or because Himmler (head of the SS) and Göring made him believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 thanks people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: You can find all this out and more at the following URL Ah, but you wouldn't be so cynical if you had some knoglagew of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 i do, iam like a war expert in some areas. but not this one. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Sergei: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: You can find all this out and more at the following URL Ah, but you wouldn't be so cynical if you had some knoglagew of the war. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 well i knew it was not for this, but seeing the SS in the game sort of related it. When i did parts of this era in history, the books said that the SA were wiped out in the night of the something knifes i think it was long but iam not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 "The Night of the Long Knives". The leaders of the SA were surprised in a hotel, escorted outside and most were shot. They were surprised because they were all in bed with one another. :eek: Maybe Hilter's exclusion from the all-male-love-fest was one of greatest disappointments and that drove him to the final solution. Who knows, but it explains why the Nazi's were such snappy dressers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 lol is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 LOL! Jack, this is why it's best to read this stuff on your own! It's an interesting period of history; mike the wino certainly has an interesting interpretation of Hitler's motivations... They really were snappy dressers though, weren't they... The other main point being that only, as has been pointed out, the leaders of the SA were shot in June 1934 - the Sturmabteilung as a whole was not liquidated. By 1939, the SA was a "prepatory school" for the Armed Forces, and continued in existence right up to 1945. [ March 17, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 well i should really look it up so i will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Michael Dorosh I went back and looked at the following URL and for the life of me, I couldn't find anything on "SS", "Waffen-SS" or even anything about WW2. All it is some sort of "search engine"??? :confused: That wasn't very helpful. This web page sucks. [ March 17, 2003, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: mike the wino ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 web page Gee "Google" got me here, do you have child blocks on your PC? [ March 17, 2003, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Nidan1 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by mike the wino: Michael Dorosh I went back and looked at the following URL and for the life of me, I couldn't find anything on "SS", "Waffen-SS" or even anything about WW2. All it is some sort of "search engine"??? :confused: That wasn't very helpful. This web page sucks. Hmm, probably has to do with your sexual motivations, mike. Call the nearest Stormtrooper, ask him for a date, and perhaps he can help you?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Ryan Posted March 17, 2003 Author Share Posted March 17, 2003 ok this is what the night of the long knifes was about The Night of Long Knives Although Hitler was now in power he still had problems to solve. One of his problems was deciding what to do with the SA. On the 1st of January 1934, Hitler wrote to the SA leader, Ernst Roehm: "I thank you my dearest Ernst Roehm, for the services which you have given to the National Socialist Movement and the German people, and to assure you how very grateful I am that I am able to call such men as you my friends and fellow fighters." essaybank.co.uk Despite that letter, all was not well between Hitler and Roehm. The SA was really nothing less than the Nazis own revolutionary army. By 1934, it had about two million members- twenty times more than the real army! They were mostly working class and many came from among the unemployed. Above all, they were firmly Socialist. That was one of the problems. wwec ecw esececs ayec ecba nec kcec ecuk. As far as Hitler was concerned the SA had done by helping him to gain power. Now, it was no longer useful. In fact, Hitler had good reasons for wanting to get rid of it: wwfd fdw esfdfds ayfd fdba nfd kcfd fduk. 1. Roehm and many other SA men wanted a second, Socialist, revolution. 2. The SA was unpopular with businessmen. 3. It was unpopular with the army, who saw the SA as a "rival", and Hitler needed the army's support if he were to take over as President when Hindenburg died. OfBv1k Visit essaybank gc co gc uk gc for more gc Do not gc redistribute OfBv1k i found this at website While looking i found some places backed up what someone said above about the SA leader being gay but npothing to do with there big gang bang - thank god wow i could have just used a search engine and found this instead of asking arh well [ March 17, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Jack Ryan ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Jack Ryan: well i should really look it up so i will The most basic book out there is THE SA 1921-1945: HITLER'S STORMTROOPERS. Your local hobby shop might have it, it is published as part of Osprey's MEN AT ARMS series. You probably don't want to buy it though just to satisfy your curiousity. Some libraries do stock these books. Also, TIME LIFE had a series on the Third Reich that local libraries would be more likely to carry. If you do have more questions on the SA, try the Third Reich forums at http://www.thirdreichforum.com/ Edit - ah, I see google has worked its magic already, excellent. The forum above is quite good for Third Reich stuff. [ March 17, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 The whole "gay" thing has been thrown around repeatedly. I have a book, packed away someplace, that states that when the SA were surprised there "three, four and even more men to a room" (not a direct quote). There are so many theories as to why Hitler did what he did. Last week I heard the "Hilter had syphilis and that drove him mad", but this one has been running around for awhile. It's all supposition and conjecture as the only person who could have explained it died a very long time ago. Even if he could have explained it, would it have made sense to anyone else? Look up the beginnings of the Nazis as well. What a far cry from their beginnings to where they ended up. It really makes you scratch your head even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 In all seriousness, mike, I have always read that Ernst Roehm was caught in bed with another man, and that homosexuality was - if not rampant in the upper membership of the SA - then certainly presumed to be by the Nazis. I do hope you were joking about Hitler feeling left out, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike the wino2 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Yes, I was joking....or was I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: I also have no knowledge of what "knoglagew" is, so perhaps you can help me there. Google brings up nothing. It's also off topic for this forum.Maybe, but Jack was specifically asking for "peopel" that "have a extensive knoglagew of the war." Obviously you don't have it, otherwise you'd know what it is (I don't think anyone else in this forum would be asking what knoglagew of war is). As such, I wonder why you even bothered with all that **** of yours? Quite pathetic. I've yet to hear anyone say "thanks for that link to google, I never knew about it, but frankly, I think it sucks."We try to not hurt your feelings, you know. P.S. For Soddball's sake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 After the Nazis came into power 1933, the SA had no real job anymore. They had been growing to about 5 times the size of the regular "Reichswehr", but felt left alone because Hitler no longer seemed to care for them. On top of that they, who had been trained to be revolutionary of the NSADP, had in fact very little to do with the power surge in 1933. As a result, they wanted a new place in germany. Röhm planned to eventually melt the SA with the Reichswehr...he started that off innocent enough by trying to set up "Osttrupps" (Border Guards) and he wanted to *arm* the SA. Which didn't go down to well with the Reichswehr, for they wanted to stay the only national bearer of arms in germany. And Röhm was lusting for a second revolution...he felt that Hitler had betrayed the original ideals of the german nationalsocialism. If you follow the worldview of Himmler, it's easy to understand why HE and the SS didn't come along with Röhm. Himmler created the SS to be an elitarian cult, a troop of "Ubermenschen" according to the nordic race...the SA, on the other hand, was indeed a pretty gay, badmanered party. Röhm was openly gay, and much of the leading crew in the SA was chosen by him... So, that, and the protection of their "Führer" was enough reason to bring the SS up against the SA, too. Reichswehr and SS actually cooperated and accused Röhm of planning a coup to grap the power from Hitler, they faked some evidence and thus explained to the whole citizenship why these people had to be shot. And shot they were. Of course, it's bitter irony that after all was said and done, the SS should later become "armed" (Waffen SS) and thus take away what the Reichswehr wanted to preserve. BTW, planning devil behind the "Night of the long Knifes" was Heydrich, who later led the KZ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schoerner Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Yep, problem of SA leaders like Strasser or Röhm was, that they were against private-property, while Hitler recognized correctly, that planned economy can't compete with private industry. The symbiosis of private-initiative embedded in the new index-currency and socialistic responsibility for the normal workers (and families), while every individual became even more motivated because of the new feeling to be an important part of a big family, not depending the money he owns, but only on the labour he is willing to give to the nation and to live in solidarity with the others, the positive power of nationalism, was the secret of Germany's economical success (and the reason, why the capitalistic systems had to destroy it, if they wanted to rescue the interest-slavery system). This complete new economical system, taking the best of the two worlds of capitalism and socialism, was one of the fundamentals of the success, and if the SA plotters would have succeded with their plans, they would have destroyed the economically unbelievable successful German way, the capitalistic states were fearing like the devil fears consecrated water. Therefore the elimination of the SA leaders, reduction of SA's influence, was the only possibility. Another dangerous aspect (for the new state) of the SA was, that in the meanwhile, as it had grown and became a mass-movement, the SA showed anti-elitist, marxistic tendencies, in total contrast to the SS, strongly following the classical elitist definition of the antique nordic Hellens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I've been reading this thread. What are you guys talking about? Last time I went to the Waffen House I got the SS (Super Stack) and an SA (Side of Ale). I thought there was a thread for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by Schoerner: antique nordic Hellens. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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