CM MOD FAQ and Etiquette

[AndrewTF]

Okay, I think with the number of newbies running around here, as well as the new crop of determined and excellent MODers doing work for CMBB, it might be a good idea to start a little thread answering some of the MOD questions and outlining some etiquette needed when talking about them.

I'm going to start, and there's no way I can think of everything, so please feel free to add on pearls of wisdom as you see fit.

1. What MODs can and cannot do: MODs in CMBB can alter either the graphic textures (BMPs) or sounds. The 3D models cannot be altered, so things like greatcoats for infantry and new vehicles are not possible. According to BFC it is not likely that this will be possible in the future, either. Other than this, MODs are only limited by the skill and imagination of the artist, and the quality of MODs available out there in CM-Land is getting better every day. Which brings me to out next topic...

2. MOD Etiquette. I feel this is necessary as I was in a snarky mood yesterday and felt compelled to leave a somewhat sarcastic posting in a thread where a couple of blockheads were complaining about the quality of MODs, including one of mine :mad: . I'll just say it: there are good MODs, and there are better MODs, and there are great MODs, but there are no bad MODs. Got it?

Now, I know what you're thinking. Let's be honest: yes, there are some mods out there that aren't very good. Some people don't have a lot of skill or talent, but still feel compelled to MOD. This is OK. It's OK because MODs are the product of good will and determination, and are offered FREE to all CM players. That's FREE, for those who didn't get it the first time. So the bottom line is: don't pointlessly criticize MODs here in public. If you don't like it, vote with your modem and don't download it. Heck, you can even go check out the download stats at the CM MOD Database and root for your favorite MODer. But, as you mother probably told you at one time: if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Of course most MODers will and should accept constructive criticism from people who have something intelligent to say. Same goes for helpful suggestions. But comments like: "that sucks" and "Russian troops look like clouns [sic]" are neither helpful or welcome. If you honestly think there should be something better out there, then try and do it yourself.

This is not to say all MODers have thin skins, but of course a lot of us creative types do. There were a few unpleasantries in the CMBO forum related to this very subject. But as long as people are doing hard work for nothing but the satisfaction of contributing to other people's enjoyment, just pipe down if you don't have anything good to say.

3. If you are announcing a new MOD, please try to post an image in the thread. I know it's not always possible, but us MODsluts just love the instant gratification of a good screenshot or two.

[ December 24, 2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: AndrewTF ]

[YECoyote]

See what you did, blockheads ? You turned a perfectly nice and wonderful modder into the Grinch. Now apologized nicely before he reaches into your homes and takes the pretty toys away.

If you have a question, phrase it like a question, instead of putting the down the mod to make your point.

[ December 24, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: YECoyote ]

[Joshik]

I concur with Andrew TF's comments. Here's my MOD etiquette 2-cents-worth:

4) Source Attribution vs. MOD plagarism

MODders have worked their butts off to try and come up with something creative. If you wish to expand on someone's original artwork, please DO THE RIGHT THING and GIVE THE ORIGINAL MODDER HIS/HER DUE CREDIT. It's simple... in your text file, add "based on X's..." or "adapted from X's..." or "inspired by X's..." You get the picture. Because after a while, I can tell when someone has slapped a coat of whitewash over a Bergman Sherman or lifted road wheels from one of Fernando's Panthers. The least you can do is give the proper credit.

I prefer an overly strict version of what PawBroon has termed the "Applicationist" style, meaning my mods are mostly derived from photos of 1/35 scale tank models that are found on the web. In my text file, I always try and source the name of the original model-builder. If I can't find that, I list the website where I found the photos (hint for newbies: try www.missing-lynx.com for starters!). If I create a camo scheme that is historically accurate, I will enclose a actual photo of that scheme along with my files.

5) Read-me files

All mods should contain "read-me" documentation text files, with the following information:

name of mod, date of release, BMP numbers, description of mod, acknowledgements and credits (if based on another MODder's work), notes about special mod variations (unit numbers, symbols, etc.), any noteworthy comments, and your e-mail address for comments (if you want any)

Here's an example from one of my mods:

*******************************************************

Panther G Late

*******************************************************

version 1.1 (first public release)

03June2002

by Josh Singer (Joshik)

This mod replaces BMPs 3230-3239 with new graphics for the German PzKfw V ausf. G "Panther", late version.

This mod was adapted from photos of models created by Xavier Lena and Gunnar Jansson. These photos can be found on www.missing-lynx.com.

Hull numbers can be placed on the rear of the turret if you desire. Different graphic variations can be found on BMP 3237 b-c. BMP 3237a is the standard rear turret graphic, with no numbers.

This set has two variations: normal, and darkened, for those who feel the original colors are too light.

All comments/constructive criticisms welcome.

jtsinger@wizard.net

6) for newbies- please, don't be afraid to contact the authors of your favorite mods. Ask them how they did it. You'll be surprised how much people will be willing to offer their knowledge. I'm still trying to learn how to do this stuff... I have my bag of tricks and techniques that I've figured out, but I'm sure there's someone out there who can do it more quickly and elegantly. I read that Dan "KwazyDog" was knocking off entire mods in an hour or two. It took me about 8 damn months to create my first Panther mod! There's got to be an easier way! Network! Communicate! Learn!

(happy holidays!)

-Joshik

[Commissar]

One more thing for the etiquette column:

If you make a mod and want to announce it, please put something like *MOD* or some other mutually agreed upon standardization in the subject line so that it is easy to see that your post is mod related or a mod announcement. With all the posts that get put up on the board, it will make it far easier to tell the posts that are mod related and what isn't quickly at a glance before it gets buried by other posts. It would be better if BFC would give mod makers their own forum but until then, it would be great help to do as suggested above. Thanks.

[ December 24, 2002, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: Commissar ]

[tboward]

As one who has zero talent for MODS, i think this stuff is incredible, and i appreciate all of you that do it! thanks!!!!!!

[tracer]

I think that the "feed Back" on mods is very helpful, I have gotten a lot of feed back and it helps me to produce better mods. I get "snow blind" a lot of the times because when I make a mod, I view it from my machine, and with mostly my other mods I have created. I forget that the mod might look a little differnt on some one elses machine, so please pop back in the forum and give a little feed back, it makes a differnce, and only takes a few minutes.

[tboward]

I am looking for gridlines that could be put on the maps, are there any of those out there??

thanks

tb

[AndrewTF]

Originally posted by YECoyote:

See what you did, blockheads ? You turned a perfectly nice and wonderful modder into the Grinch. Now apologized nicely before he reaches into your homes and takes the pretty toys away.

If you have a question, phrase it like a question, instead of putting the down the mod to make your point.

Hey, I'm not the Grinch! You should see the Xmas gifts (MODs, of course) I have lined up for everyone. Might be a little late, but Xmas gifts nonetheless.

Some great points here, BTW. Keep them coming.

I hope I've made it clear that helpful MOD suggestions and critiques are usually welcome, but pointless complaining isn't.

[AndrewTF]

ACK! Double Post! :eek:

[ December 26, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: AndrewTF ]

[tracer]

Oh yeah, and almost forgot, but I totally agree, and I always do this, make sure to give credit where credit is due, example: I used Krawzydogs excellent "Panther Pack" for this mod, or I used Joe Blows style on this mod, etc.

[Rostik]

Hey, thanks for calling me a "blockhead" after I appologised. I know the technical mod problems(by the way you explained them well) but I will not change my mind.

P.S. I better hide my Christmas presents!

[Pud]

One more thing I would like to add on modding, can a logical file naming be used? I have seen some with all sorts of titles, worst case would be naming the mod zip something like "Panther.zip"

I know the naming thing was brought up around 2 years ago but how about something like the following file naming convention...

Unit_early/mid/late_(winter)_artist.zip eg

PzIIIH_early_Fredbloggs.zip

PzIIIH_early_winter_fredbloggs.zip

Just a suggestion.

[HOFMAN]

Yeah, of course,every designer's work shall be admired. But it doesnt mean we cant express our views and submit the suggestions. Anyone could offer freely his opinions of the MODs released here. I dont say some russian Mod is like a clown. But its not historically accurate basically. We just hope MOD designers could refer to more reliable information before the making of MOD and dont release the totally wrong or obviously inaccurate MODs to mislead the fans. Although we arenot the designers, it doesnt say we have no right to make comments.

[HOFMAN]

Yeah, of course,every designer's work shall be admired. But it doesnt mean we cant express our views and submit the suggestions. Anyone could offer freely his opinions of the MODs released here. I dont say some russian Mod is like a clown. But its not historically accurate basically. We just hope MOD designers could refer to more reliable information before the making of MOD and dont release the totally wrong or obviously inaccurate MODs to mislead the fans. Although we arenot the designers, it doesnt say we have no right to make comments.

[Abbott]

I'll just say it: there are good MODs, and there are better MODs, and there are great MODs, but there are no bad MODs. Got it?

Well said sir! Merry Christmas.

[MrNoobie]

heres my take....its out there if you want em.

[ichadwick]

Without criticism, how can designers improve? Doesn't need to be personal, but certainly constructive criticism is necessary for creative development. And then there are the technical comments - are all modders equally capable of applying the details of a particular force to their graphics?

Ian

"It is only an auctioneer who should admire all schools of art."... Oscar Wilde.

[jbertles]

Having read though the recent threads on modding and etiquette, here is my two cents for what it's worth:

[Note that I have never modded, though I often download and use them. But it's something that I look forward to doing in the future, as time presents.

Also, note that I have played CMBO avidly nearly since it came out, and CMBB from the moment it shipped, so I don't consider myself a newbie, although I am a late-comer to the forum (just got broadband, hooray!).]

But being a teaching artist (a profession that requires that you are both an artist of some kind as well as a teacher), I have a certain prospective on artistic criticism.

For those of you who are modding - great; THANKS! and keep on going. Consider letting us know what your sources are - books, original photos (b&w? or color? Beware colorized b&w!), movies, whatever. Let us know also if you are striving for some kind of cool artistic interpretation or strict reality.

But modders, also be aware that when you put your stuff out there it becomes public domain in the matter of criticism. Any artist (or game programmer, for that matter) who has gotten bad reviews in the press (and I count myself in that group) knows that all artists have to be somewhat thick-skinned AND ego-centric. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with the criticism in whatever way it comes, but you do have to put up with it. It very quickly becomes clear whose criticism is relevant/meaningful/informed and whose is not.

For those who use the mods and have criticisms/comments to make - well, that is our right and duty! However, it might make things a little easier if we were all a bit more constructive in our criticisms/comments.

Don't just mention the sources of your disagreements, document them, or mention the names of the books/movies/etcs that you base them on. The grogs that inhabit these caverns have very definite opinions on the validity of many of these sources. Listen to them, even if you don't agree. That is, after all, why this is called a forum...

If you have scans to document your claims and don't have a website to upload them to, I'm sure some interested parties here will help you find ways to display these images in the name of increased reality in the game.

It also behooves us to remember that we are talking about giant armies of millions of men with varying types of equipment. There is bound to be a certain deviation from front-to-front, outfit-to-outfit, supplier-to-supplier, etc.

But most of all, try to contribute to the general drift of this game and forum. We are all striving to not only have fun with these games, but root them in the reality of what actually happened 60 +- years ago. Try to enter it with the spirit of a community of CMBO/BB gamers in mind, rather than issuing edicts and put-downs.

Very few of us were actually alive and aware during that time, so we have to rely on second-hand sources - which may or may not be accurate! So be generous as well.

Personally, I think the modding thing is fantastic, and am constantly amazed at the amount of time and work that the modders put in - as well as the appreciation with which they are generally received. It would be a shame to have that community-spirit kind of thing disappear from this forum.

And that, ladies and gents, is my humble opinion. Thank you and good night.

[Snarker]

Originally posted by AndrewTF:

... as I was in a snarky mood yesterday....

Forty dollars please. My copyright!

And yes, all you gamers out there - appreciate the effort everybody puts into mods and scenarios. If you have constructive criticism, voice it. Something like "too much shading", or "not enough cover" is fine. "This mod (or scenario) sucks", isn't very helpful.

[fitz]

Snarker, you are quite correct. I can't understand how anybody has the temerity or the cheek to critizise the results of other peoples hard labour which is free for all to download.

It is these unselfish artists which help to make this game a joy to behold. If you feel a mod can be improved by pointing out what you feel are inaccuracies then come onto the forum to discuss them in a friendly and open manner. Try not to be too high and mighty or with an "I am right and you are wrong!" attitude. It only results in heated and pointless arguments.

After all it's Christmas! And as Tiny Tim said "God bless us every one!" sniff, sniff.

Fitz (off to open a bottle of Australian Chardoney!)

[Andreas]

Originally posted by fitz:

Fitz (off to open a bottle of Australian Chardoney!)

Man, you must have been very bad to deserve that...

As for the original post - I completely agree with Andrew. If you want to criticise mods, be constructive. Otherwise, ask yourself if your talent reaches up to be up there on the pedestal, and if not, shut up, or put up.

It takes some stomach to put a mod forward in an environment characterised by such high quality mods as CMBB is. Posts like Hofman's, or previously Maximus ritual trashing of mods are rude, unnecessary, and unwanted. They discourage new modders and old modders alike, and that is bad for the community as a whole.

[AndrewTF]

Thanks for all the great comments. Just to clear things up from my initial post, I never meant that we should not criticize mods, just that pointless complaining is not welcome. I certainly have benefited from the input of members of this forum, and my mods have improved because of it. If you have a criticism, tell us why, and how it can be improved! Too dark? Something out of proportion? Not dirty enough? Something not historically accurate? What grass are you using? BTW, these are all comments given to me about my mods at one time or another.

That thread that got locked (I'm kinda flattered at the amount of attention, actually) is a perfect example of what NOT to do when discussing mods. Had any of the complainers given me some real input, I would have gladly accepted. As a matter of fact, I even asked for more input in the thread previewing the mod, and a few people were gracious enough to send me some helpful illustrations and photos. Thanks!!!

And, as a working member of the professional art world myself, I totally understand the validity and necessity of criticism. However, not every MODer is an artist-- professional, student, or otherwise--and few MODers have anything to gain, financially or professionally, from making CM mods! We're mostly gamers, not artists, so again, if you don't like a mod, don't use it. Simple enough.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by AndrewTF:

3. If you are announcing a new MOD, please try to post an image in the thread. ...

This one deserves a repeat!

I like mods, but can't download all of them.

When somebody announce a mod and then simply point at the CMMODS site, it's nearly useless to me when I find the thread a week or two later and that mod is no longer "new".

The CMMODS site normally put up a picture of each mod, and supplying a link to that image in the announcement should, IMO, be standard!

Cheers

Olle

[Green Hornet]

Being a total mod slut that knows nothing about modding....here's my two cents -

I sit here on my butt waiting for these awesome mods to come out to enrich my CM experience.

Basically, I'm asking a complete stranger to spend his/her valuable time creating something that is going to bring me hours and hours of enjoyment...for free.

If I have any issues at all with the mod, the least I can do is be polite. Polite constructive criticsm or just quitely decide that this particular mod is not for me and move on.

When someone gives you a gift, don't complain.

[Bruno Weiss]

Here here!