Armoured combat team scenario

[Concord]

"Concord calling JasonC and Kingfish, do you read over?"

Hiya, Concord here again hoping to get some more advice about designing an armoured combat team battle.

The map:

I'm nearing completion of the map, and will upload the blank version to The Proving Grounds shortly. It's 640m wide x 6000m (yeah, 6km!) long. I decided to make it a battle rather than an operation to reflect the run-and-gun style of the attack. The map is based largely on aerial photos, in particular a period photo of extensive farmland near the Panora River in Italy. The main (dirt) road runs dead straight up the map, with crops separated by windbreak trees, and a series of building clusters. It was interesting to note that the ground in the photo was fairly flat (for Italy), and all of the windbreaks were perpendicular to the road.

The Allies:

Going off our previous discussion JasonC, I'll use the list below. Any further suggestions?

1 x American Combat Team (armour-heavy, veterans, maxed ammo) consisting of:

8-10 x Shermans (M4A3's? M4A3(75)W's?)

1 x Armoured Infantry Platoon including 2 x M3A1 HT's (.30 and .50 cal), 2 x M3 HT's (.30 cal), 1 x Platoon HQ, 1 x AR HQ 44 Squad, 2 x AR 44 Squads (actually 1945 infantry squads with 2 BAR's), 2 x Bazooka Teams, 2 x MMG teams (.30 cals), and 1 x M4A1 Mortar Carrier HT.

1 x 105mm Radio FO, plus transport (M3 HT? M20 Scout Car?)

2 x M10 Tank Destroyers

JasonC, should I include 2 x M8 HMC's, or a Cavalry platoon, or some Stuarts?

The Germans:

I think that the German forces will be important for play balance and realism. Going on my sketchy knowledge, I was thinking mainly infantry with support weapons (MG's, Tank Hunter Teams, maybe a Panzershreck or two), and a smattering of different guns (maybe 50mm ATG's, a couple of 75mm ATG's, maybe some AA Guns and Infantry Howitzers?). In addition, maybe some light vehicles such as AC's and HT's, and possibly even a couple of Panzer III's or Marders or STG's.

Play Balance:

Being a somewhat unusual map (narrow and long), I was considering using the setup zones for the Germans. I would like to create a situation where the Allies have the advantage, but if they lose too much before reaching the Victory Locations at the end of the map they will lose the battle on points. It would also be good to have the play balanced enough that it is tough but enjoyable to play the German side as well.

Historical Realism:

Being such a 'generic' tactical situation, I think it should be easy to match this scenario to an historical framework, either Italy or western Europe (the 'flat' areas of Italy could easily pass as western Europe). The main indicator would be the German force mix I imagine. I would like to push this into the "historical scenario" catagory. Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated!

Commonwealth Note:

If this scenario works, it would be interesting to create an historical Commonwealth version, with a British (?) mobile column and historically appropriate German defenders. This might be something that someone like Michael Dorosh could assist me with.

Any input welcomed.

Cheers,

Concord :cool:

[Kingfish]

I would suggest beefing up the American infantry a bit. A 2-squad platoon is good for at most 2 engagements, and with 6 kms I envision quite a lot of ambushes / roadblocks to fight through.

A good reference is the old CMBO Op "Drive to Mortain".

[junk2drive]

Sergei made a CMAK version of Drive to Mortain that I found enjoyable.

[Ellros]

Kinda small forces for that big a map aren't they?

[JasonC]

I would not add cavalry to the US force. If you do, make it a single cavalry platoon with 3xM8, 3xJeep MG, 3xJeep carrying 60mm mortars. The M8s should be independent, not platooned.

If the 105mm radio FO doesn't fit in the infantry vehicles, give him a jeep. Since the Germans won't have much in the way of armor, an easier way to fit him in is just to drop one of the bazookas. Any 2 man unit can ride in the same halftrack as a squad.

Sherman types can be M4A3 75W. If meant to be early in France, you could make just the lead 1-2 tanks W, the rest plain M4A3. If in Italy, all of them plain variety.

Another possible addition to the US column is an engineer section, e.g. HQ, 2 squads, 1 FT, 1 zook in a jeep and 2 trucks, or even without transport, riding the tanks. Among other things they can clear mines.

Don't give the Germans 4 types of guns. Unhistorical. Pick a type. Also, you should understand that even 1 PAK40 is a formidable opponent for such a column, on so narrow a map, and all German infantry force defenders could expect to have on that kind of frontage.

As for AFVs, German infantry simply would not have any, most of the time. You might give them a single StuG as a reinforcement midway through, I suppose.

What they would have, is their organic panzerfausts and grenade bundles, maybe 2 extra tank hunters with those or with magnetic mines, a couple of panzerschrecks, 2-4 daisy chain AT mines and maybe 1 hidden one, a couple roadblocks, 2-3 trenches, a veteran or crack sniper, 2 HMG-42s, an 81mm mortar or two, perhaps an MG log bunker, a dozen wire, and a company of infantry (perhaps light a platoon, perhaps not).

Don't think long range engagement by a gaggle of guns. Think hidden roadblocks holding fire until point blank range, interlaced with obstacles. Once or twice in the course of the whole fight, a heavy PAK or AFV might stick its nose in from much longer range. But the fight has to be carried by the infantry, relying mostly on stealth.

[Concord]

Thanks for the advice...

Beefing up the forces:

I had planned to have two combat teams for this scenario, one armour heavy and one infantry heavy. After looking at the map however, I changed my mind. I thought that on a map only 640m wide things could get cluttered. I also thought that the second team would possibly not see that much action anyway, as they will probably be 20 vehicles (or further) down the road. I'm guessing that in fact, there probably would be a number of combat team sized companies along the road (maybe a whole brigade?), but they simply aren't represented for playability. I will include a second team if it makes for a more accurate simulation though.

Kingfish, I see your point about the infantry being asked to do too much. JasonC, what would you suggest to simulate this historically? I like your idea about the engineers in soft vehicles, but is this enough? What about a platoon of armoured infantry or recon infantry riding the tanks? Would the lead armoured combat team have had more infantry present in reality?

German ordnance:

For May 1944, CMAK shows the 50mm Pak38 as +20 rarity, and the 75mm Pak40 as -5 rarity. Maybe just 1 x Pak40 OR 3 Pak38's? 2 Panzershrecks. No AFV's. Hmmm, it's a bit of a tall order for the German infantry though. Suicide platoons? I wonder if anyone would survive the withdrawal after the ambush!

Defensive tactics:

Is it possible to outline roughly what tactics the German defenders would use? Would they use the wire and trenches near the roadblocks? Would they concentrate anti-tank defences with LOS to the obstacles? How could they stop an armoured combat team with just a company of infantry and only 'light' support weapons?

Cheers,

Concord

[Kingfish]

The point where the road emerges out of a tree line would be the ideal spot to lay an ambush. A hidden AT minefield, covered by a keyholed Pak40 sited on a TRP, would be a tough nut to crack. Toss in a HQ with good combat bonus, in a trench with a MG42 HMG team, and two 81mm mortars in command but further back to handle the inevitable infantry counterattack.

[JasonC]

Concord - no, they wouldn't really have much more in the way of infantry. An engineer section will help them, but a tank heavy team fights mostly from its tanks, that's the idea. It is also what gives the German defense some hope of working. You should not up the US infantry portion just to make them stronger.

As for other teams, historically the task force - a battalion sized unit - was the typical force sent along a given road or other major axis of advance. But I believe we agreed previously that depicting those in their entirety pushes what CM can actually simulate, too far.

On German guns, they would simply not have 3 PAK on a frontage of 640 meters. A battalion might have 3 or 4 50mm PAK instead of 75mm PAK, but it would have a much larger sector to cover. One 75mm PAK is the most realistic German gun allotment.

If you think that makes life hard for the Germans, put it in a trench and keyhole its line of sight, in a way that cuts across the 640m of ground to defend - preferably at a middling range, like 800m. You want the column to be unable to continue up the road without crossing the PAKs line of fire - but you also want the number of vehicles in view at one time, limited.

That is one of the major German defenses and should account for a tank or two on its own. As well as some delay. No defense is indestructible. And tank-led combat teams generally could punch through, though with costs and time, failure possible etc.

As for how the Germans defend, I explained in rough terms already. In more detail, they use the full length, not one position. They have successive positions along the road. Some are designed just to delay the Americans and to give warning time, maybe make them deploy. If they get a tank great. If they get 3 minutes, more like what you expect.

Then in some area, hopefully not too predictable, they want a more serious ambush. Multiple positions parallel to the road is one way that can work, perhaps with some "stopper" farther ahead. Another is a reverse slope position, designed to deal with each bit crossing one at a time. That needs to "T" across the road to deal with an attempt to spread and flank the position.

There might or might not be an additional limited delay position behind the main one.

What makes a delay position? At a place where the road passes woods, a roadblock, forcing the column to leave the road to get around it. The most accessible bypass route has a tank-hunter, maybe a squad (perhaps split perhaps not) with fausts. A dummy trench (empty) near where they'd naturally want to return to the road. You might force a wide detour on them that way, or get lucky and kill a leading tank, or make them spend 3 minutes dismounting scouts to check everything out first. They pick.

Another might have an HMG in a trench off on one flank, ready to fire perpendicular to the road at about 200-250m. A daisy chain mine ahead of the intended firing point, again preferably at a road choke-point. Off on the same side of the road and 80m away from it, a panzerschreck with an armor covered arc on "hide", in cover but with no foxhole (to avoid them seeing it). Behind the mines, an HQ and 2 squads in tree foxholes, the squads about 60m apart.

They see the AT mines and get to decide what to do. The HMG is ready to hit halftracks. It can fire at that distance while remaining a sound contact, and from an unexpected location (trenches can be anywhere). It can pin any dismounts. If it attracts a buttoned tank coming over to find the source of the firing, then it "shuts up", and the schreck opens.

Let them commit to a way around or through the mines and platoon position before springing those, though. The squads are close enough you should not be able to drive between them without drawing fausts - and initially they can be on 30m covered arcs. They can also shoot down any engineers trying to remove the AT mines to clear the road. If the column gives the whole position a wide berth, staying out of range of the platoon, fine, let them, and remain hiding. Harass the halftracks with the HMG when it is their turn to pass.

A main position might have wire on either side of the road forward (a scout squad in trees where the wire is, optional), a hidden AT mine up at the point you want the ambush to begin. The wire should prevent easy movement to cover away from the portion of the road you intend to hit. The other cover, you should be in, with plenty of infantry, the other schreck, HMGs 100m farther back in trenches.

It should be possible to break LOS to the ambush area, to withdraw, or "skulk" away from a treeline or crest. That way opening fire in front of so many tanks is not necessarily suicide. If they get through the ambush and gain fire ascendency, break contact and save most of the men. Withdraw into a woods interior. Watch for spotting rounds and dodge if you see them; otherwise, they can't really afford to wade in - not enough dismount manpower.

The PAK should cover a portion of the ambush zone from considerably farther up the map, and preferably from another direction. So a tank turning to face the infantry (and buttoned) won't be facing it. Less likely to see it rapidly that way, means more shots before replies arrive. Wait for a perfect sight picture, preferably 1-2 tanks within it facing the other way.

Last delay position up the road, if used, another roadblock and tank hunter job or perhaps a reserve platoon (minus a squad, maybe), blocking 100m across the road, hiding with 30m arcs.

If a StuG comes in to help at some point, it engages from off the road, back of the map, shoot and scoot fashion from low ground. Or it keyholes on a place the road comes out of some woods or over a crest line, to take out the lead vehicle only, before its friends can help. Then displace and try it again from someplace else.

The Americans have to make time. They have to decide each time they see a roadblock or AT mine or dangerous looking stretch, whether it probably has nothing or just an obstacle or one tank hunter or squad with fausts - or is a real position. And if so, how big, platoon or company size.

They have to decide how to deal with each one - go fast, tanks leading and using the road, or slow, hunting, off road, dismounted scouts checking things etc. They can make better and worse decisions about that. The Germans can kill tanks with schrecks, with the PAK, maybe one with the hidden AT if the Americans stay on the road at the wrong point, maybe the StuG when it arrives. HMGs can take out halftracks, in addition. Everybody can hurt the engineers and anybody who dismounts. If nobody does, the squads have a chance with their fausts instead, at the moment of contact (holding fire to point blank range, if there are no dismounts looking for them).

They will probably lose the gun and if they aren't very careful with it the StuG, and they will lose some of the ambushers. They need not lose the whole company. Some, the Americans will avoid them and will live that way. Some will survive by "skulking" into woods interiors, or hiding at the right time. The column may eventually get though - but if it has lost heavily enough in high value items, the Germans may win anyway, on KOs.

I hope that helps.

[ May 09, 2006, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Concord]

Thanks guys for the road-specific tactics lesson. I will incorporate it into the German setup.

The first draft of the map is available for download at TPG:

"Long road"

It takes an hour (64 minutes to be exact) for the lead tank to drive on Move command from the edge of the setup area to the northern edge.

It's a very long map. I'm tempted to add a second team and a second company!

Cheers,

Concord

[Concord]

Here's the photo that was my main reference image for the map...

[JasonC]

Just considering some other things the Germans might have. A single 75mm leIG is plausible. It might have 6 HC rounds, an equal amount of smoke, rest HE. A single FO, 4 or 6 tube 81mm or a 105mm, which could be line or radio. 1-2 TRPs. Possibly a small pioneer section (HQ, 2 to 4 small teams with demo charges, 1 or 2 FTs). Up to 3 trucks (for PAK, heavy weapons etc), 1-2 kubelwagens (command, FO, etc).

[Concord]

Thanks. Based on your advice, below is the 2nd draft of the OOB:

The Americans: (Italian theatre, armour-heavy, veterans, maxed ammo) consisting of:

2 x Armour Platoons including:

10 x Shermans M4A3's

2 x M10 Tank Destroyers

1 x Armoured Infantry Platoon including:

2 x M3A1 HT's (.30 and .50 cal)

2 x M3 HT's (.30 cal)

1 x M4A1 Mortar Carrier HT

1 x Platoon HQ

3 x AR 44 Squads (actually 1945 infantry squads with 2 BAR's each)

1 x Bazooka Team

2 x MMG teams (.30 cals)

1 x 105mm Radio FO

1 x Engineer Section including:

2 x Trucks

1 x Jeep

1 x Platoon HQ

2 x Armoured Engineer Squads

1 x Flamethrower Team

1 x Bazooka Team

The Germans: (Defending elements of a German Grenadier Battalion), consisting of:

1 x Grenadier Company (veterans, panzerfausts / grenade bundles, maxed ammo), including:

1 x Company HQ

1 x Section HQ

3 x Platoon HQ

9 x Rifle 44 Squads

3 x Tank Hunter Teams (featuring ATM's)

2 x Panzerschreck Teams

2 x HMG's (MG42's)

1 x Sniper (veteran or crack)

1 x 75mm ATG (PaK40)

2 x 81mm Mortars

3 x Trucks

2 x Kubelwagens

Fortifications including:

2 x MG Log Bunkers

2-3 x Daisy Chain AT Mines

1 x Hidden AT Mine (maybe)

2 x Roadblocks

4 x Trenches

12 x Wire

Optional extras for inclusion, or as reinforcements:

1 x 'Reserve' Platoon of Infantry

1 x Assault Gun (STUG IIIG)

1 x Infantry Gun (75mm leIG) with 6HC and 6S

1 x FO 81mm (probably line, probably 4 tube)

1 x Pioneer Section

2 x LMG Teams (MG42's)

OOB Notes:

Does this sound realistic?

The Germans look a bit more impressive to me now ('on paper' at least). There's quite a few optional extras to consider too.

I'm tempted to drop in a couple of 'character' pieces into the US mix. JasonC, you mentioned in the previous thread that task force battalions had alot of light armour and AA. What about a couple of AA HT's (M16 MGMC's)? Are the two M10's realistic? Maybe increase to a platoon (4 of)?

German set-up:

I am going to set up the Germans in their default positions, incorporating the various tactics you've described. When it's done, would it be OK to e-mail the scenario to you (JasonC and Kingfish) for feedback?

American set-up:

I will set these up in their default positions on the road. Perhaps tanks in front, HT's next, then soft vehicles? Or 1 platoon of tanks, then HT's, followed by the second platoon of tanks?

Historical:

I believe that this kind of situation would have been very common ("a day in the life of"). I could upload it as a fictional scenario, but because of its authenticity in regards to OOB and map layout, maybe I should slap a label on it and send it off as a semi-historical one. Any actual engagements anyone knows of that could fit the OOB and map (fairly flat farmland)?

Kingfish, I was considering making the German company Fusiliers or Jagers. I'd like to ask what the definition of the different branches are (Jager Aufklarungs???), but it may be something for another thread.

Cheers,

Concord

P.S. The deeper I go into tactics and scenario design, that more I realise there is to learn!

[ May 13, 2006, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Concord ]

[JasonC]

Having 2 M10s along is realistic enough, it wouldn't have to be a platoon. But they might simply not have them. If the Germans don't have any serious armor (Jagds, Panthers, Tigers) the Americans can live without the M10s. They are the specific antidote to "big cats".

On the AA and light armor point, you could certainly add an M17 quad 50 halftrack to the US column. I wouldn't add more. And I don't think you need to give them more cavalry style light armor.

On the march order, it would be tanks ahead, then armored infantry, then engineers in soft vehicles. If there are M10s they might go behind the armored infantry - they would not be leading. The armored infantry itself would use a march order something like plain squad with zook, HQ squad and HQ, plain squad plus FO, MGs, Quad 50, mortar halftrack.

On the Germans, 3 daisy chain and the hidden AT, I think. Mines were basic for this sort of defense. I'd also give them the StuG just for play balance, as a reinforcement. They don't need a 4th infantry platoon as a reinforcement, they will have plenty in that department. I would give them an FO, again for balance, 81mm is fine.

[Kingfish]

Kingfish, I was considering making the German company Fusiliers or Jagers. I'd like to ask what the definition of the different branches are (Jager Aufklarungs???), but it may be something for another thread.

Based on some online resources it appears the German formation guarding the Panaro river line in the 88th ID's sector was the German 94th division, although elements of the 8th Gebirgsjager division may also have been present. Therefore, if you want to keep the German OOB historical I would suggest just plain Grenadier formations for the 94th, and of course Gebirgsjager for the 8th. If you want to add a fictional element you may want to consider a Mech formation, but don't mix any formations.

All German units should be well below full strength at this late stage in the war.

[Concord]

Did a bit of research online, and it would seem that this kind of action could be suited to a group like 1st Armoured ("Old Ironsides") Division's Task Force Howze, in Italy.

With somewhat limited time and limited reference material, I will probably list this as a fictional scenario. I may be able to provide enough of a frame of reference for it to be classified semi-historical though, especially given the authentic OOB and tactical layout.

Having been provided with this authenticity, I could go on to produce more scenarios with a similar theme. For instance, Task Force Howze saw action in flat farmlands, twisting mountainous roads, and in cities. If I design these, I may need some advice regarding subjects such as standard tactics in cities or the MO of Gebirgsjager units.

Although I am drawn to the concept of historical simulations, without a library of battle books to consult I would be leaning too heavily on other's research. It looks like you guys are busy designing plenty of historical scenarios yourselves! I think I will take a break from madly designing to go hunting scenarios from SD to try out! So, I am shifting my aim to the creation of common battle situations that would happen frequently ("a day in the life of").

Once again JasonC and Kingfish (and others), I appreciated your advice about scenario design.

Cheers,

Concord

P.S. I saw some interesting stories about 1st Armoured Cavalry Reconnaissance Regiments that had some impressive victories, and also a story about a task force in the Po Valley that was spearheaded by a small recon group with just one Stuart, and probed 30 miles into enemy territory in just one day (and survived)! :eek:

[junk2drive]

FWIW all the research is a waste if the battle doesn't work. I have read some stories that I thought would make a good battle only to find that CM won't do what I want it to do.

I can research the artist and the paint colours but if my finished painting looks like a Picasso it ain't the Mona Lisa...