Marc Hameleers Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 Partisans seem to effective currently. While playing the Demo with Claes, we came up with the following idea after a partisan took venice... 1) A partisan cannot leave it's home nation until it has liberated a home city 2) a partisan cannot grow above strenght 5 unless it has liberated a home city Also, i agree with the thread elsewhere that a carrier shouldn't be sunk when attacking, unless adjacent. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 Originally posted by Marc Hameleers: Partisans seem to effective currently. While playing the Demo with Claes, we came up with the following idea after a partisan took venice... 1) A partisan cannot leave it's home nation until it has liberated a home city 2) a partisan cannot grow above strenght 5 unless it has liberated a home city Also, i agree with the thread elsewhere that a carrier shouldn't be sunk when attacking, unless adjacent. MarcI agree with #1, but not necessarily #2. It would make sense for the partisans to want to liberate their own country first, but they can recruit men in the countryside (Where most partisans come from anyway) But I've never let or had a partisan live long enough to do either. Edit - Don't you hate when you think of stuff right after you post? Anyway, the partisans in some countries outnumbered the German units garrisonning the areas, and after Italy collapsed and they claimed much of their equipment, in some cases they were better equipped than the Germans. And that was with the Germans holding onto the major cities. [ May 27, 2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Wolfpack ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 I would say a partisan unit should never be able to leave it's home country, unless the entire country is liberated. Why would they go spoiling for a fight in another country, when their's is still in enemy hands? I'd also say a maximum of strength 8, no matter what. These are partisans, not trained and disciplined troops. Edited, as Wolfpack beat me to it. And to add another idea: once the entire country is liberated, the partisans can become "regular" units, able to reinforce up to 10. [ May 27, 2002, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: R_Leete ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 Originally posted by R_Leete: [QB]I would say a partisan unit should never be able to leave it's home country, unless the entire country is liberated. Why would they go spoiling for a fight in another country, when their's is still in enemy hands? QB]Hehe...tell that to the Vietnamese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 Dammit Wolfpack, you can't reply to my edit by editing your message before I do! What are you, clairvoiant? Partisans were sometimes fairly well equipped. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they have the command structure, communications and transport of a standard unit. They are also (usually) very hard pressed to resupply. Add in men having to rotate out to take care of their families (they aren't getting a regular paycheck), lack of spare parts, etc. They shouldn't be as effective as a corps. More of a harrasment in the rear areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 Originally posted by R_Leete: Dammit Wolfpack, you can't reply to my edit by editing your message before I do! What are you, clairvoiant? Partisans were sometimes fairly well equipped. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they have the command structure, communications and transport of a standard unit. They are also (usually) very hard pressed to resupply. Add in men having to rotate out to take care of their families (they aren't getting a regular paycheck), lack of spare parts, etc. They shouldn't be as effective as a corps. More of a harrasment in the rear areas.Haha...you'll never know what secret powers I possess! Actually, what should be considered is who the money for their resupply comes from. The British, so therefore, that could be considered not only supplies being brought in from England or Africa, but also advisors and specialists such as the English dropped into Yugoslavia and especially Greece during the war. Considering the problems that Tito and the Chetniks caused for the Germans, and how many troops had to be kept there to keep the problems in check, a full corps is probably an understatement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Well, if they are coming from Africa, where does Africa get it's supply? England itself. That is a heck of a long way away, and should have some built-in penalties. A one turn time delay for reinforcements to arrive might be good, but is probably a real nightmare to code. Probably cause all sorts of problems. But if no ports are available, how is this material getting to the partisans without being detected? Okay, how about air drop? Reduces or eliminates any time penalty, but wouldn't those planes be subject to interception or AA ground fire? It's a tricky situation. Without causing too much complexity, it's simpler to just limit the strength of those units. On a different note, is there a way to eliminate or limit all partisan activity? Like having a certain number of units stationed in the area? I've had Yugo partisan units appear right in between 2 understrength armies, a corps and an air fleet. You'd think they wouldn't form up right in the middle of the German army. Obviously, they were immediately eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Originally posted by R_Leete: Well, if they are coming from Africa, where does Africa get it's supply? England itself. That is a heck of a long way away, and should have some built-in penalties. A one turn time delay for reinforcements to arrive might be good, but is probably a real nightmare to code. Probably cause all sorts of problems. But if no ports are available, how is this material getting to the partisans without being detected? Okay, how about air drop? Reduces or eliminates any time penalty, but wouldn't those planes be subject to interception or AA ground fire? It's a tricky situation. Without causing too much complexity, it's simpler to just limit the strength of those units. On a different note, is there a way to eliminate or limit all partisan activity? Like having a certain number of units stationed in the area? I've had Yugo partisan units appear right in between 2 understrength armies, a corps and an air fleet. You'd think they wouldn't form up right in the middle of the German army. Obviously, they were immediately eliminated.Well, the British managed to keep a good supply going into Yugoslavia throughout the war. It's not like you need a deepwater port to deliver supplies to a force smaller than 7 or 8 divisions that don't see stand up combat. Just a fairly steady stream of smaller craft. In the end it really doesn't matter much to me, I've never really had much of a problem with them, even with 2 appearing the same turn. It's a small drain on my resources, but nothing that's going to lose the war for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 I guess I agree. They are more an annoyance that a real threat. But then again, I haven't played a game against a human, who built them up and went rampaging. Which is what Marc Hameleers seems to have experienced. All the benefits of having an army appear, without the risk and hassle of getting them all the way around the world. The AI just seems content to pick at the edges a bit. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guanoman Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 I am in the camp that says partisans should not be able to move into or attack into a country outside their national borders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient One Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 So am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straha Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Me too. And the strength should be (somewhat) limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Jeez, I'm getting my own army of supporters! Maybe I should be hired by Hubert as an official beta tester. Hint, hint, Hubert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfpack Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Originally posted by R_Leete: Jeez, I'm getting my own army of supporters! Maybe I should be hired by Hubert as an official beta tester. Hint, hint, Hubert!I think R_Leete and I should both be shipped out full beta copies so we can test out our theories. Agreed R_L? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 You have to get your own army, first! BTW, where is Hubert? Does he think he gets a holiday this close to release? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 So the partisans are giving you guys a hard time... hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Hameleers Posted May 28, 2002 Author Share Posted May 28, 2002 Partisans are TOO deadly inthe hands of a human opponent. When i conquered venice with them, my first reaction was that that NEVER could have happened in 1941. Perhaps give partisans the power to hurt cities outside their land by killinga few MMP's..but not occupying them. That should not be possible. As for receiving the beta to test the partisans, I think claes and me should be first in line Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insu Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Originally posted by Marc Hameleers: As for receiving the beta to test the partisans, I think claes and me should be first in line MarcAnd I couldn't agree more since it was my dear old Venice who was occupied by a rag tag gang Claes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Gee guys, we should remember that the strength of partisans is their ability to fade in and out of the countryside, and that there is no way that a supply line equivalent to that required for a Corps could be established. The partisans in Yugoslavia could tie down so many German troops only because of of the mountainous terrain. Most of the supplies of partisans in France were from local civilian sources. Paradropped supplies were a few weapons, maps, radios, explosives and other knickknacks. There is no way that the Allies in england could have supplied an army corps by air from England. Having a Corps-sized partisan unit roaming the countryside is not only ahistorical, it is ridiculous. Even in 1944, a stand-up fight between a corps-sized partisan unit and a German corps wold have been a massacre. The role of partisans is to harrass the supply lines of the enemy, not to replace regular army units. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 I agree partisans should not be able to leave their country at all. If and when their country is liberated, they are no longer partisans - they should convert to minor status and align with the major powers or remain neutral. French and Greek partisans should also be considered. And Spanish and Turkish partisans could be considered in the event those countries are conquered or enter the war as Axis minors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Guys, the partisan corps is an abstraction for the game to give you the feeling of an annoyance in your rear They start at strength = 5 and with a supply = 0, not really all that threatening if you've kept a few units down there to deal with them. As for being ahistorical, I really don't know what to say, I think it would also have been equally ahistorical if the Axis were to completely abandon the area and not even leave garrison troops in the surrounding cities as it sounds like some of you have done. I don't think that the Brits would have minded so much if the Partisans would have moved in to take a completely undefended area (esp. Tirana), and since it's all ahistorical it's all a matter of conjecture at this point. Try leaving a few units down there and see if you still have any problems, you might, but after all that's the point. Happy gaming! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Hameleers Posted May 28, 2002 Author Share Posted May 28, 2002 The problem is that you need to garrison Munich, venice, albania etc....there is a chance that if you do not, and your troops are moving to wards one part of Yugoslavia to kill of some partisans there, another partisan springs up on the ohter end of yugoslavia. You need too many full corps to defend agaisnt two half powered partisans. Either disallow partisans to leave the nation until they have a homebase, or allow the building of halfstrenght units. Now the axis have to build more full strenght Corps units then there are partisans to be safe. It's almost best to not conquer yugoslavia, but just kill of all it's units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkbone99 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 The reason you do not want to leave units behind to defend is because everyone knows in the demo that the end of the world occurs in May of 1941. You acually start playing the demo with that hanging over your head. I am sure when the full game comes out that I will be leaving garrisons behind but with the demo its a grab it and go situation. WIth fog of war on the computer does not know what you have behind your lines and for me in some games going up against the USSR that consits of a corps in Berlin and every force I can muster pushing to Moscow. Does make it tough when a pesky Partisan pops up but a amry built the next turn right next to them tends to keep them occupied. My two cents (I want change) Milk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Hameleers Posted May 28, 2002 Author Share Posted May 28, 2002 No that Army won't stop those partisans...cause the partisans move around.....you'll need to build more then one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts