A 3D Strategic Command?

[Wolfe]

Just to bug Hubert, I thought I'd post a strange idea I had about a possible future world-wide version of SC.

Drawing a spherical object onto a flat piece of paper is difficult and generates lots of exagerations (like an overly large Greenland on Mercator maps). But instead of trying to fit a round object onto a flat plane , how about just making that entire round object in 3D space and flying a camera over sections of it looking straight down like a zoomed-in satellite view? But instead of making it perfectly round, use connected hexagons and pentagons that resemble a sphere. So the Earth would look kinda like this:

Buckyball Earth (260KB)

That fullerene was generated using a geodesic dome making program:

Geodesic Domes

BTW, the Windome version screws up on my machine, opening multiple windows in a never-ending loop; Windows users who want to play with the proggie should probably use the DOS version instead.

The 'stitching' that is apparent in the pic is there because the proggie actually generates only 1/8 of a sphere at a time and then mashes things together.

Any game that was made with this 3D world in mind would likely have to be done in Direct-3D or Open-GL, and I don't know how hideous the poly count would be; it might overwhelm even modern CPUs. But I think it could be very cool to see.

Anyway, a crazy thought.

- Chris

[ June 23, 2002, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Wolfe ]

[BloodyBucket]

Now that would be a nice perspective, watching the V-2s fly would be awesome! I have no idea of how workable it would be, from a CPU usage or programming standpoint.

One thing that strikes me is the "flavor" issue. Having a satelite view of the globe somehow doesn't seem WWII-ish. Perhaps it would be more at home in a Cold War or future setting.

Still, a fascinating idea.

[Aloid]

Well, it's been in a few games that are quite old by now. XCom comes to mind first. It was simple, but used to great effect. It's most certainly do-able, but is it worth all the effort in the end?

Hubert could spend that time squeezing the game scale down to divisional level, or perhaps squad level... heh!

It would look cool though!

Aloid

[Desert Dave]

... somewhere in our fabled land

Is one another

Who understood -- some of

What you've all just said.

They ain't the likes of me, however,

Who's never found that cleaner world,

Or whereat? The Fountain of Youth?

Or rhyme or reasons in the moon,

Whether in 4-D, or 3, or only... 2.

But, one wonders... what

That other one does

... when the joint is jumpin'

And the band is blue & brash,

And the dancers,

And the sax-man,

And the Holy Goof too -- all!

Do their 2-step thing -- in real time,

In a real world,

And not in Euclid's head!

[BloodyBucket]

wow.

[Wolfe]

BB wrote:

Having a satelite view of the globe somehow doesn't seem WWII-ish.

The view I was thinking of wasn't actually a pulled-back satellite view (though zooming in and out might be neat). I just used the satellite idea to illustrate always looking straight down toward the center of the sphere so that you don't see much curvature in the sphere or any type of isometric view.

I like it because, like a map, it can give you a relatively flat view of things (atleast in the limited view screen), but not exaggerate any part of the global surface, as is the case in flat maps.

Besides, the fact that it is made up of hexagons (along with a few pentagons) seems to fit nicely with a hex game.

Yeah, it may certainly be difficult to do and possibly not worth the effort, but I do think it would be very cool.

Just a wild thought. I'm sure Hubert has nothing better to do than sit here and listen to our crazy ideas.

- Chris

[pzgndr]

What if we combine SC with Space Empires IV and Combat Mission? Have a galaxy quadrant map, then system maps, then the global geodesic map, and then theater maps for ETO and PTO? Then zooming in ultimately to the squad/crew level and 1-minute turns? Yikes^2! :eek:

Friends don't let friends post drunk.

[Aloid]

Originally posted by Bill Macon:

What if we combine SC with Space Empires IV and Combat Mission? Have a galaxy quadrant map, then system maps, then the global geodesic map, and then theater maps for ETO and PTO? Then zooming in ultimately to the squad/crew level and 1-minute turns? Yikes^2! :eek:

Friends don't let friends post drunk.

That would be "Emperor of the Fading Suns", but with AI that worked! That would have been "the game", but it was brain dead.

I digress (sp?) ... is the game out yet!!!???!!!

Aloid

[Magyar Khan]

better spent energy and time on a worldscale war instead of europe.

[Hubert Cater]

Just to bug Hubert, I thought I'd post a strange idea I had about a possible future world-wide version of SC

Interesting idea Chris, you never know

Hubert

[Aacooper]

For a world-wide strategy game (SC2?) this is the way to go... this would keep the Aleutians the same scale as the Solomons. A flat projection wouldn't be right, and a globe would be so cool.

[Mannheim Tanker]

Originally posted by Wolfe:

Just to bug Hubert, I thought I'd post a strange idea I had about a possible future world-wide version of SC.

Drawing a spherical object onto a flat piece of paper is difficult and generates lots of exagerations (like an overly large Greenland on Mercator maps).

You can still use a flat map if you simply use a different projection. There will always be a tradeoff, even with a globe (you can't see everything at once on a globe without distortion either).

You need to ask yourself which attribute can you afford to distort: true direction, true distance, shape/area, continuity. Once you answer that question, it's easy to choose the projection.

IMO, a globe isn't all that useful in a game of this scale, and the distortions that you are referring to don't really affect game play much. So much is already abstracted (units, stacking, etc) that the slight loss of accuracy due to projection-induced distortions is neglible. Also, the map is already pretty the way it is.

Edit: Agreed that a different map setup is necessary for a worldwide game. I was referring to the current version of SC.

[ June 26, 2002, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Mannheim Tanker ]

[WendellM]

FWIW, I'll mention that Traveller (a late-1970s/mid-1980s SF RPG) mapped planets onto what amounted to a 20-sided die. As long as you don't mind 12 pentagons mixed in among your ~480 true hexagons, it's quite do-able:

The "flat-planet" view (~90K)

The "rounded" view in 3D (~16K)

Note how the "half hexes" along the large triangles share the same color as their counterparts across the ignored black areas and are, in fact, halves of the same hex. Also note the "missing slice" hexagons in the tropics that are actually pentagons. Lastly, please note the polar sections that form north and south pentagonal poles.

More-detailed maps are also possible, of course (and would be needed for something at SC's scale). The above examples are just from the planet model that has actually seen use by Traveller gamers for about two decades.

[ June 28, 2002, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: WendellM ]

[Silvercloud]

Interesting Idea really this 3d... But what strikes me abouyt 3D is that it would leave little room (as mentioned before) for hexes. Hexes is the core of the game as it is now. As well a flat map can work very well, if you need some proof try dogsowar (free oldie game) at

web page

3d is overhyped in my opinion anyway, as are real-time strategy games. WW2 had very little to do with "vertical" strategy but mostly with "horizontal" strategy.

Last note after having played the game for a while: -Why o why are the low countries represented by a belgian flag? the netherlands is bigger and played a more prominent role in resisting the germans (larger army)...same for the units.