xwormwood Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 - Weather effects - special Blitzkrieg rule for the Low Countries - limited amphib. Transports - Mulberry harbors - limited air units - History record (animated) - Russian Winter strike - production tree (pay now, get your army 3 rounds later) - politics (press countries in your alliance, Balkan pact) - U-boat system for strategic warfare (incl. Raiders) No one has to re-invent the wheel once more. While so much in SC looks completly like COS, i wonder if it would be possible to put the better ideas from COS into SC. PS: if anybody wants to speak here about house-rules, he is welcome (have a debt to pay...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Originally posted by xwormwood: - Weather effects - special Blitzkrieg rule for the Low Countries - limited amphib. Transports - Mulberry harbors - limited air units - History record (animated) - Russian Winter strike - production tree (pay now, get your army 3 rounds later) - politics (press countries in your alliance, Balkan pact) - U-boat system for strategic warfare (incl. Raiders) Okay what's SC got that is unique? 1. Hubert Cater 2. This Forum 3. Zapp's Ladder League 4. Fan based Scenarios 5. CVM and Otto and their website 6. Hubert Cater 7. $25 (US) for all this 8. Fan-inspired upgrades and patches 9. Fan-based mods Did I mention Hubert Cater? This is more than just a game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 correcto! [ June 10, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: xwormwood ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 SC 1. It works on modern Computers (without problems) 2. Looks nicer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Do we need it for SC2 or don't we...My analysis. - Weather effects Add for SC2. Affect any or all - supply, movement, FOW. - special Blitzkrieg rule for the Low Countries Don't need - limited amphib. Transports Need to modifiy - Lose readiness each turn while on the ocean - Mulberry harbors Don't need - limited air units Don't need if air is nerfed just a bit. Or go with ever increasing costs for each additional unit. - History record (animated) Don't need - Russian Winter strike See weather effects above. - production tree (pay now, get your army 3 rounds later) Need - delay placement for 1 turn - politics (press countries in your alliance, Balkan pact) Some improvement would be nice - U-boat system for strategic warfare (incl. Raiders) Don't need. Like current naval system. I would modify u-boat tech to increase raiding (each level u-boat goes from 5 to 10 to 15....etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 KDG: thank you for your analysis. One question: have you played COS when it had it glorious times? Maybe followed by the next question: what exactly speaks against a history function? when i played the AI it was always a nice end to see what happend when i wasted again some preciouse hours of my live in front of my senseless computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.m.R Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Well I think SC is a really good game. I just finished my first TCP/IP-match against xwormwood and I was suprisingly victorious. Now I'm open for new challenges. Maybe some day everyone here know my name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 U-boat system for strategic warfare (incl. Raiders) Don't need. Like current naval system. I would modify u-boat tech to increase raiding (each level u-boat goes from 5 to 10 to 15....etc) Already in effect (alantic only). The amount of damage to UK is based on the strenght of the subs. Its just hard to see because they only incress 1 for each tech and start at strenght 10. Looking over the rest of your list and I like it, many of the twiks that are needed you list. Exellent job. [ June 10, 2003, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 I just finished my first TCP/IP-match against xwormwood and I was suprisingly victorious. Now I'm open for new challenges. Maybe some day everyone here know my name. Sigh, my first TCP/IP game as well, and here my tip to everyone: there are players who DO invade the UK. Silly me. [ June 10, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: xwormwood ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.m.R Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Well I thought it was worth a shot due to your strike on Iraq. I had never done it but it worked quite well didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Correctamundo! as JULES WINNFIELD would say. COS & SC, this have been debated a lot in this forum, and i am positive about including some of the COS features in SC2, weather and production queue are the most important issues that should be included in SC2. Complemented by a new sub warfare vision and a new strategic bomber vision and random/% initial placement of minors troops. The politics press option wouldnt fit well in SC2 and it depended a lot in luck, we can live without it. And would be nice to see some windows poping up with events and that kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.m.R Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 My opinion is that SC2 should include much much bigger map all though it would cause longer period of time to complete one round. And I hope the game will remain as simple as it is because I think this is the best strategic game there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 And let us not forget the option to intercept, and rockets should be transportable and act like artillery, and intelligence/espionage, and , and ,and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 xwormwood Yes I did play, and I think I still have it somewhere on 3.5 floppy. I was making suggestions based on the fact that Hubert might not have the man hours to do everything that we would like. It would be a nice function for some, but isn't a game breaker/maker, and should be last on his list of programming priorities. Iron Ranger Is it a direct, one to one correlation. Level 11 sub does 11 MPP raiding? How many subs max in the Atlantic? The med is a .5 to 1 correlation, correct? I'd like to see level 0 subs do 5, then level 1 do 10, then level 2 do 15, etc. to level 5 subs doing 30 MPP raiding(This may be too high, so it could be adjusted and play tested). Thus going subs would be a well funded alternative for the Axis, as would using the navy for the Allies to combat this. Most players let the Axis use two subs in the Med taking away 10 MPP total, and think nothing of it. With level three subs(after 500 invested for two chits), we would see 30 MPP per turn, a significant resource raid(almost pays back in a year), and something that would require the Allies to react to. Just my thoughts on bringing back subs and ocean warfare back into the game. [ June 10, 2003, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: KDG ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 KDG "- Weather effects --" Put in SC2 Why not do something here as well? Do you think it's right having amphibious landings in the North Sea, North Atlantic and Baltic during the Winter when WW II landing craft would have been battered and destoyed? Also, why not a simple adjustment that leaves units with 1 movement point in Russia during the winter and 2 movement points in the rest of Europe other than southern Spain, Italy, North Africa and the Middle East? Wouldn't the game be a lot more fun if winter weather were a real factor? Wouldn't it also be better to have varying amphibious landing sea zones. Don't forget the D-Day landings were almost postponed till July because of rough waters! Amphibious landings in the Baltic and North Seas and Bay of Biscay , June, July and August only. Southern Atlantic Region (not really the South Atlantic), Mediteranean, Black and Red Seas, Amphibious landings allowed year round. I think these provisions (both winter and landings) would make for a much better game. And why not in SC present version? Are those problems really that difficult to fix? Also, there are three or four Topic Threads in the back area that had in depth comparrisons of SC with both, COS and HiCom in the even anyone feels like searching for them. Essentially the important points are covered here in any case. [ June 11, 2003, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCPilot Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 The only thing I think needs to be changed is weather effects, changing hex size to 25 square miles, modify the editor so that certain countries don't have to be on certain sides (i.e. Italy on Allies, everyone vs Russia etc.), and give the U.S. more production points. [ June 11, 2003, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: TCPilot ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 I don't expect any major changes on SC(except maybe the release of a full fledged editor). All new ideas I believe would be used for SC2 25 mile hexes would be too much micro management. If hexes were going to be changed at all, I wouldn't go any less than 40 miles while also extending the outer boundaries of the map. An editor that can change the cost of units, their stats, as well as the techs would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Iron Ranger Is it a direct, one to one correlation. Level 11 sub does 11 MPP raiding? How many subs max in the Atlantic? The med is a .5 to 1 correlation, correct? I'd like to see level 0 subs do 5, then level 1 do 10, then level 2 do 15, etc. to level 5 subs doing 30 MPP raiding(This may be too high, so it could be adjusted and play tested). Thus going subs would be a well funded alternative for the Axis, as would using the navy for the Allies to combat this. Most players let the Axis use two subs in the Med taking away 10 MPP total, and think nothing of it. With level three subs(after 500 invested for two chits), we would see 30 MPP per turn, a significant resource raid(almost pays back in a year), and something that would require the Allies to react to. Just my thoughts on bringing back subs and ocean warfare back into the game. Max damage to UK is 40MPPs in the alantic. Max damage to UK in med is 20MPPs. Alantic: (based on play test, could have missed some facts) Damage is 1 - 1 on strenght of subs with a max of 40 MPPs damage (total, not each for the two locations). Thier is also a random number of +/- 2 for each sub and a bonus number for each sub group (wolfpack) in the region (+1). So one sub (10) will do 8-12, 2 subs 16 - 26 ect. Best to use 4 subs and you will always get the max of 40. Med: (less play testing, but less need) As you pointed out two locations are max of 5 MPPs and one is 10MPPs damage. The two '5' locations seam to remain at max unless your sub in damaged to less then 6pts. The 10 location is like the alantice 1-1 with a max of 10. A damaged sub will normally give its value +/- 2. Breakdown: UK starting MPPs 135 Almost impossialbe to hold Epypt (-15) 120 Malta and Gabralter -5 each (-10) 110 Alantic, 4 subs (-40) 70 Normally Irland falls (+16) 86 Bombing a port or two (-5 to -20) 76 (avarage) So if UK throws away her navy and you want to go the sub/bomb port route you can really put a dent in the UK MPPs and gain alot of experence. These units also help it makeing the allies work for operaiton Overlord (or Round-up), but they do almost nothing to help in Russia and cost a ton of MPPs (subs are close to a air fleet each) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 The surface raiding ranges for subs are: St. John's (Canada) 7 hexes, Liverpool (UK) 5 hexes, Gibraltar (South of Spain, East side only) 4 hexes, Malta (Island South of Italy) 4 hexes and Alexandria (Egypt) 4 hexes. No other sea hexes do any damage. Supply levels do affect damage. But sub supply levels are very important in the Atlantic while in the Mediterranean sub raiding supply is almost irrelevant. Multiple Atlantic subs in an area do damage for each sub. Only one sub can do damage per area in the Mediterranean (Med). However multiple subs in one Med area will each get experience points. Tech Level 0 Bombers spot subs 5 hexes away. Tech Level 0 Air Fleets spot subs at 4 hexes and Tech Level 0 carriers will spot at 3 hexes. Any Long-Range Aircraft Tech advances increase the spotting ranges. All other units, naval or ground, must be adjacent to spot subs. More good sub info from Dan. Only things I've noted different is you can have subs on the west side of Gabrater and cause raiding, I havn't noticed the supply level making a difference in the alantic but that could be where I'm getting the +/- value and not noticing if those subs are in high or low level of supply. Carriers spot out to 2 and gain one for every level of LR tech. [ June 11, 2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Does anyone know where to get a working copy of CoS or CoS FE? The one's on underdogs.org don't work on new computers and need all sort's of tune up's after you get it and I suck with that kind of stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmbunnelle Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Ah, no matter when I drop in here, I can always count on one COS thread on the first page. Strangely comforting in its predictability. Like the red spot on Jupiter or the babies on toilet paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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