Dragonheart Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Finally Kuni shows up late in the evening looking at the game and surrendered. Short AAR what happened East I attacked hard in the east destroyed both front-tanks and reduced one army in the north. In the middle and south i retreated to form i line. In the interception battles he lost a lot of Airstrengh i think. In an early counter he could not destroy me weakend tank. In a later attack he managed to destroy one army but he lost his last tank and i reduced some of his armies. Meanwhile i surrounded Leningrad and prepared a couple of amphipious landings there 3 armies were ready to hit leningrad each turn. I regrouped all my corps to have no partisans. This is really a tough job. West I moved manstein + 2 AF to sicily to hit malta and to cover my attack on Vichy which i did in round 3 after buying an additional HQ in France. Vichy surrendered in round 3. The mines i covered with corps to avoid free training there. He tried but he lost some airstrengh there. Spain joined me as he declared war on portugal...another 2 free armies and 4 corps for me. List and some other german stuff (1 tank,2 armies,1 corps,3 AF) + italian HQ + 2 Armies + 3 corps +2 AF were in range to defend spain. My next move would be kicking allied ass out of spain, attacking sweden, finish off leningrad and counter in russia with the better supply from finland, finally when capturing moskov and would have switched to the west killing GB. That´s simple isnt it? Maybe a reason to surrender? Kurt you can decide if you accept my surrender to this tourney or not i dont worry....if you insist i will stay. Cheers Dragonheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 Relax, Dragon. The tourney is underway. People are having their holidays. I can start our game this week any evening. I'll look for you on ICQ. Once our game is finished our group games will be finished. I hope the games in the other groups end soon as well. The second round will begin after new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hi gang, I was under the assumption that round 1 would involve 2 games against each opponent (1 axis, 1 allied). Is this not correct? The scenario seems fairly balanced but 1 think Axis has an edge. What are the current standings Axis versus Allies? Iron, good AAR but but Sweden failed to surrender only on the first Axis turn after you took the capital, we haven't played past that... FF (Axis) vs Xwormwood underway. Short highlighs - USSR North: - Axis experience supply problems but take Lennigrad - USSR Central - Trading hits... - USSR South - Axis takes Rostov, units adjacent to Stalingrad - WEST - Allies pounding Brest, Ireland taken - MED - Allies attacking towards Tobruk with carrier and air support, Italians holding. I will send turn 1 for my other game tommorow, I have been pretty busy with holidays, and really wanted a chance to play a few turns of my other games instead of making the same mistakes over and over. Regarding the pace of the tourney, I have no complaint, but I typically play PBEM and am used to games taking a long time... Kurt, let me know if I am holding things up and I will try and move things along via TCPIP. [ December 29, 2003, 02:00 AM: Message edited by: Friendly Fire ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 @Friendly Fire I dont think that axis have an edge in this scenario. IMO allied has a better position there, especially in the west they have plenty of possibilities to do some bad things on the axis player. More than i Fall Weiss axis has enormous time pressure. I won all my games in Fall Blau so far with the only difference that i crushed my opponents with the allies and with the axis i had a tough fight. Easy targets for allies are -Irland (1 Turn to conquer) -Iraq (3-4 Turns to conquer) -Finland (4-5 Turns to conquer) -Schweden if axis player is not quick enough Axis targets are - Vichy (3 Turns) - Spain (6 Turns) - Schweden (dependent on the pressure from allied) - Portugal (8 Turns) - Schweden (dependent on the pressure from allied) - Swiss if there is time enough Another advantage for the allied is the better air (more expierience,possiblities to train,LR) Good idea that you have ICQ now Kurt , so the chances to get a game running will increase dramatically. Whoever plays me can choose his side, i dont wanna hear that one side is weaker than the other. Cheers Dragonheart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Whoever plays me can choose his side, i dont wanna hear that one side is weaker than the other. This might be (it is) the most balanced std senerio for SC. This week I had the opertunity to play two full games against two of the best players (I played several other games but these two we finished). I was axis in one (CC) and allies in the other (Jon). In both games the other VERY experenced player said my side had the advantage, I have played the senerio more but if that isn't a good indicator of this being a balanced game I don't know what is! Axis do have the advantage, simply because they move first and can set the pase for the following turns. Advantages: Axis- Interior lines, can put enormase force on any one location. Exp Armor- Self explanintory Postion- They control the flow in the Med and the Eastern front Allies- Navy - They control where and when to conduct attacks Air- They outmatch and out tech the Axis Minors - They have several options (due to Navy) on places to attack if they wish. But they can't wait around too long as the Red army will fold in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 bump: Keeping this near the top until the games are over (if we really finish them). Short update on my PBEM game with FF - last game for me in group A: East - This front has stablised with a north-south line running just to the west of Moscow. german and Itilian units are pounding on Rosvoca (sp). Med - Stable with the alllies pounding on Bahgdad. VF is axis. West - The allies have just landed and the germanys operated 5 armor and several other units into France. The port of Brest was destroyed by the allies so they can't land units in one turn. Baltic - Sweden is now axis Almost no tech advaces but with the heavy combat in the east and the size of the US/UK air force I don't think very many chits have been inversted. MPPs - Germany 620 (?) - Italy (?) 125 USA - 200 (?) USSR 350 (?) UK 150 (?) almost perfectly balanced Man how drunk was I when I wrote this??? I'm not going to fix it up so everyone can take this to heart, don't drink and type. [ January 04, 2004, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Condor Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 Ive played only 1 game with this scenario but its enough to realize the heavy advantage axis has. A good player should always win playing as axis. Axis doesnt have a great job to do or to think too much about what to do, its way too clear: 2 main objetives in the first turns, Sweden and Leningrade, both of them can be easily achieved in the 4/5 turn. By then the MMP increase will raise due to connecting finland and the baltic to the mainland. A wrong axis strategy would be to make the game a race conquering minors, axis doesnt need this, would be stupid to start a new war in spain when u can give russia the final blow. i guess most of the game axis have lost have to do with this kind of approach. Follow instead the Sweden-Leningrade and u will see u cant lose. Allies have no HQs to carry a fast invasion, and a fast invasion is needed in this scenario. Allies have not enough troops to take Iraq fast, by the time they get iraq russia could be already dead. Russia defense is a very hard job, 1 mistake and u r doomed sooner than expected. U r winning 335 and u have to defend Moscu and avoid by all means that axis penetrate south of stalingrade, a few troops and fewer cos axis is giving the first blow, cripplin the russian AFs (level 0). Even if u make a terrific Russia defense and axis retreats to face US/Uk troops in the west teh lines are WAY too advanced, they will never reach Poland or give axis a hard time in time. Russia cant win the game only allies can win the game and they start without HQ and the MED with few troops, by the time they are a menace axis will be way too powerful. To balance the scenario: US starts with HQ. A couple of additional corps in the MED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 My thoughts exactly. The first turns are the key to the game. 9 out of ten Allies are doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Kurt, you can still choose the axis if this is your opinion. I have no prob to play allies. In my opinion allies are stronger here. See you tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Nice post by CC - and he's generally right on everything. The axis have the advantage in the 42 game, because they move first. So if they play perfect and move first they should win, but if they make even one small mistake the allies can take the advantage. But there is luck in this game (less in the 42 then 39-41) and with the allies getting 4 'free' chits vs the 2 for the axis, the allies have the advantage in luck. therefor if both players play perfect the allies should win. But wait we have a +/- 1 combat event..... If you get my line of thought, 42 is as balanced as I can find in SC - everything can be improved on so maybe we do need a USA HQ or something else but not till more games are played. With all the major powers acitive your options are limited - or unlimited if you prefer. My view on a balanced game. Tic-Tac-Toe, a simple (limited) strategy game. The player moving first has the advantage but if he makes a mistake the second player has the advantage, if everone playes perfect its a draw. But in SC there are too many variable to play perfect (maybe Terif does) and there is enough randomness to make a draw tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 In the interest of fair play, if desired I'll take Allies in every game for this event (untill/If I face DH - we'll need to flip a coin, I think). I have been switching sides every game but will happly play the 'under dog' allies from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Thoughts on play in the 42 Senario: The 42 game is not the 39 game. This is pure combat from begining to end with combined arms making a huge difference. Forget the massed airfleets with long range, like in the 39 game. Short of huge luck with the limited chits you get, you will never reach the level of tech required to create a massive difference using an 'air race' strategy. This is not to say tech is unimportant, I invest in Jets and LR in every game but if you invest too much the other side should make you pay, right away! You do not have this huge gap in time from the fall of frace till the attack on Russia (and USA joining) to mess around and hide your investing of 8-10 chits in R&D. Germany: You have the opening move, pick a plan and stick with it - pound on the allies as you'll need to keep them down if you wish to control the pace of the game. #1 - make sure you prevent partisans! Italy: Support Germany, you have almost a full army group doing NOTHING. Shore up the area that Germany must leave 'empty' while off crushing those farmers (Rambos words). UK: Defend, your in a good position (not great - no Torbrok) hold everything and don't allow the axis to rest. Prob and make them pay for mistakes with 'Ranger Raids' (Rambos words). USA: Attack, for the allies you have the only 'free' units on the map. Pick a plan and move forward NOW. Any delay by the US will give the axis more time to consolidate and tougher to push back. Options are unlimited (control of the sea) but check with UK and attack the weak link in the armor of the axis (minors anyone?) USSR: Bleed, AND make the axis bleed. This is the hardest job and where most players (me included?) fail. They just don't have the experence to play a historical Russia. Passive defense will not work, all out attack, forget it. You need to combine it all and hold on. Lose Moscow, bad but you will live. Lose Leningrad, the north is lost but you can continue to fight. Lose ???? (middle city), your going to have a hard time, I hope France has been revived. Lose Stalingrad (or the hexs south of it), Game Over unless you can retake or reconnect in the next two turns. France: Your dead, when revived I always puschase corps to help hold the allied line. I've seen carriers too and armor. Aside from that, the HQs are too weak to make a difference, or did I miss something? As the Allies expect to lose alot of units to finally take control of the game. I expect to lose 50-100 Russian units before the game will finish (the game against Rambo quit in late 43 with over 60 Russia units destroyed and all starting 5 US armys wiped out). But time and time again I play people and they hold back, not wanting to lose units but constantly losing position, and in the end they have worked themselves into a no-win location. Don't allow this to happen!! As the Axis attack!! The allies are down and you need to keep them down because if you let them get back on their feet you will never recover (short of a huge jump in tech, so there is hope); due to their total control of the sea and (at the start) dominance of the air. But this doesn't mean just attack Russia, a UK left alone will slowly build an unbeatable air core. Some Minors are looking good, and a lighting raid on Canada or the USA could throw the western timetable off so much that it will never recover. You have the initive don't lose it! Hope this helps someone, I was going to wait unit all the games were over, but the exellent (but limited by his play of only one game, as stated) post by CC has brought these thoughts out of me. Combat note: L2 Armor will crush air fleets! Armor has a AD of 3 while air fleets have a HA of 2. From a purely MPPs look the advantage is with the armor - and since the LR tech is low the support level should be the same (HQs can't easily be destroyed). So don't give up hope on the Tiger or T-34s - they both have a place in combat during 42. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonheart Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Hey Iron, Dont forget that the axis has also to manage in the first turn not to have partisans. If the German player doesnt manage that problem he will be dead. Most of my opponents failed with this problem together with a decent attack of russia i managed to cut off the hole german army.....something like a big big Stalingrad happended First i have to win ag Kurt and maybe some other players before i face you. As you said ..bad luck and any minor mistake in this game and you are dead ag a good player..and Kurt is a good player. We should play both sides ag each other....but i dont really care which side i get in this scenario..so you could choose too ag me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 4, 2004 Share Posted January 4, 2004 Dont forget that the axis has also to manage in the first turn not to have partisans Look in the post above, the only nongeneral advise I give is the most important for Germany - #1 prevent partisans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 Dragon defeated kurt88. The game was over very quickly. Axis tried to keep pressure on the Ruskies after a good first turn.Russians retaliated heavy and forced a breakthrough to Finland thereby relieving Leningrad. My plan was to be ready for a quick Sweden conquest but an Allied probe that seized one of the North-German towns delayed the attack. Axis lost units very quickly in Russia. In the Med nothing much occurred besides UK invading Iraq after they already had taken Ireland. Game sucked big time, as usual :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 4, 2004 Author Share Posted January 4, 2004 We're almost through round one. My last game is in progress by email. I'll try to finish it as soon as possible. Could Rannug, xwormwood, Friendly Fire and Orange Devil let us know how they're games are going? So far Iron Ranger and Dragonheart are already qualified for round two I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Devil Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I'm still playing Kurt by email (right?) and I still have to start a game against Kuni, which will be TCPIP probably so as soon as we can play we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_Rannug Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Xwormwood wins against Rannug(Axis). I'm still waiting for FF to start our game. This scenario is fun but the first turns makes or brakes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 Standings so far... Group A : 1. Iron Ranger - 6 points, 1 match to play (right?) 2. Rannug - 3 points, 1 match to play. 3. xwormwood - 3 points 4. Friendly Fire - no points. Group B : 1.Dragonheart - 6 points, all games played. 2.Kuniworth - 3 points, 1 match to play. 3.Orange Devil - 3 points, 2 matches to play. 4.kurt88 - no points, 1 match to play. Kurt, let me know if I am holding things up and I will try and move things along via TCPIP Take your time, but not too long I was under the assumption that round 1 would involve 2 games against each opponent (1 axis, 1 allied). Sorry fo the late reply here, but no, 1 game against an opponent is enough. Round two will go as follows : Nr 1 (A) - Nr 2 ( Nr 1 ( - Nr 2 (A) Let's hope round two can begin very soon. [ January 05, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: kurt88 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 5, 2004 Author Share Posted January 5, 2004 Germany: You have the opening move, pick a plan and stick with it - pound on the allies as you'll need to keep them down if you wish to control the pace of the game. #1 - make sure you prevent partisans! What should be the strategy for Axis in the east? Attack and keep the Russians under pressure or retreat a bit and risk loosing Finland but gobbling up minors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 What should be the strategy for Axis in the east? Sorry, the only advise I'll give (specfic) is stop partians on turn one. Its you #1 goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Ranger Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 1. Iron Ranger - 6 points, 1 match to play (right?) Yes, FF and I are playing our game in PBEM. I think the date is early 43, if you set a 'finish' date should we submit the games to a third party for a judgement? AAR - Update: West: US and UK units have landed and forced a powerfull responce from the Axis. Two german army groups were pulled out of the east or 'raised' in France to force them back. Because the port was desttroyed by the allied bombers there build-up was slow and allowed the axis the first 'punch'. This has forced the allies back to within 2 hexs of Brest with UK corps takeing a huge beating from the massed german armor (4 L2 tanks). Italy has also provided help by sending the units involved in the Algeria invasion north and 'covering' the flanks of the german units. Med: Nothing - Syria allied - Malta still allied (forgot about this and sent a tranport to spot) - Iraq is Axis but land route from Moscow establised - VF axis. Baltic: Nothing - Sweden axis... Alantic: Nothing East: 1/2 of the axis air is in the west so any advance is slow. Continuing to destroy one corps outside of Moscow every turn, Germany now controls 4 hexs around the city. Pulling back from the swamp/forest hexs east of Leningrad. Attack of Rostova called off, too costly but exploiting holes in the Red line around Stalingrad. Red Army combat group spoted just east of Moscow, expecting couter attack soon. Tech: advances USSR AT L2 USA AT L1 Ger Jets L2 Others ????? [ January 06, 2004, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Iron Ranger ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry, the only advise I'll give (specfic) is stop partians on turn one. Its you #1 goal. Yes, this is very important. Still the question remains since I think in this scenario oth strategies can work. Maybe best to discuss it after the Tourney ends, we don't want anyone to give away their plans Thanks for the update Ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Fire Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Iron Ranger repels D-Day and breaks open the Soviet defenses in the West. UK takes Iraq, but too little too late. April 18, 1943 FriendlyFire resigns good luck to Ranger in the finals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurt88 Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 People, let's get round two started as soon as possible. At least on feb 1st. If games aren't finished by then a third party will make the call. Once round two begins the Tourney will be played out quickly. OD, think you can manage to end our game TCP/IP this week? Let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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