Terif defeated as Axis 1st time ever?

[Sombra]

And this night I dreamed of 4 pale riders . The shy was burning red and it seems many souls were wailing in agony....

Avatar it seems you have the best shot to win against Terif with the Allies in a long, long time... The bids certainly are getting higher.

[Avatar]

Game continues this coming weekend..... stay tuned. Perhaps Terif and I will live AAR the rest.

[Avatar]

Game over, Allies win. A post-game report to follow.

[jon_j_rambo]

RRI will take care of Terif.

[Curry]

Avatar, let me be the first to congratulate you. Congratulations.

[Terif]

Yes, congratulations for Avatar - his defence of England was excellent and won the game now for him .

The UK forces at Brest got cut off from retreat (port bombed out of order) and later destroyed. So UK had no ground forces in England when german transports appeared at the coast from Scotland to London. The last UK battleship with str 1 got encircled in Edinbourgh harbor and destroyed by landing axis forces.

Allies took the right decision and disbanded Montgomery HQ and the Gibraltar garrison - so England was able to build the necessary corps to defend London against the first wave. This bought Russia the necessary time to attack in the east. Without disbanding these units, UK would have surrendered within a very short time.

So Axis only managed to conquer Scapa Flow, Edinbourgh and London in time. A few corps were left defending Manchester area when the war ended vs german HQ + 3 armies and several corps in England, 5 AFs bombarding from France. England would have fallen but too late to save the day.

In the meantime Russia slowly advanced between Hungary and Warsaw. 17 russian AFs in service, but not much ground units. 2 russian armies destroyed, tank survived at str 2 together with several corps. Most russian ground forces at low strength..

The end came when Yugoslavia couped exactly in the moment Axis removed its Budapest garrison in June 1942. Hungary immeditately surrendered and the whole eastern front in Rumania got cut off - russian forces operating to Budapest and Belgrade.

Without this perfectly timed Yugo coup the eastern front could have held quite some time. Königsberg and Warsaw still german. They would have been evacuated now and a new defence line established at Berlin/Prag behind the river and in the mountains.

But since England would have needed now too much time to conquer, the war was lost and Axis surrendered when USA joined the war and Canada surrendered to Axis as a last act .

At the start of Barbarossa report showed both sides had the same amount of units (russian units with better quality) and with a faster fall of England, Axis could still have won the war despite the really late fall of France (October 19, 1941). Only 3-4 turns made here the difference and Avatar got them with a very good defence of England, so he really deserves this win .

[jon_j_rambo]

I feel a distrubance in the force. Yoda gets slung around in Episode III.

[jon_j_rambo]

"My little green friend" --- The Sith Lord Council Dude.

[Comrade Trapp]

Congrats on your glorious victory Avatar. Good game both of you.

[Avatar]

Thanks guys. It was an experience. I will tell you this though: Terif will never let this happen again, so you're witnessing history ;P.

[jon_j_rambo]

"History, I'm talking about History" --- General George Armstrong Custer.

[Terif]

Yep, the next 2 games (both bid 240 in 1:5:30) were again pretty short with Avatar´s Allies surrendering

BTW: in the second game he used a perfect and pure Rambo-All-In strategy - here game was already over for Allies in April 1940 when german forces broke through and the carriers were toast .

[jon_j_rambo]

Yodl kicking ass, preparing for RAI I will have to find a new strategy! RRI is still a world wide rule

-Darth Legend

[zappsweden]

Guys, u must learn to play the RAI. RAI is not a "Rambo cowboy shootout" strategy. Well... it may have been that way for him, but "That's Rambo" folks.

However we normal players play as we should.

Meaning. If Axis gets Poland and Denmark early and gets initiative in the west, transform from RAI->Corps dumping strategy or similar i.e DO NOT buy billote plus buy alot of UK corps to fill the lines. UK should buy 1-2 corps anyway regardless of Axis success.

The worst mistake is buying Billote if Axis is having big success. Billote is then too late. Billote is the biggest gamble IMO. If Billote succeeds in holding the line, Bye bye Axis but if lines fall quickly you have to sell him for 200 (Bought for the double!!) and lose 200 MPP!

[ May 30, 2005, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[Dragonheart]

Originally posted by zappsweden:

The worst mistake is buying Billote if Axis is having big success. Billote is then too late. Billote is the biggest gamble IMO. If Billote succeeds in holding the line, Bye bye Axis but if lines fall quickly you have to sell him for 200 (Bought for the double!!) and lose 200 MPP!

Thats the reason i always buy weygard.

[hellraiser]

As my last games vs Zapster and my 2 test games vs Terif show, RAI cannot succeed vs 3 turns Poland/Denmark. It can, ok maybe not stop, but greatly delay Axis if they get bogged down in Poland for 5 turns and have problems taking Denmark (turn 3+). It buys time for allies to strenghten the lines in France.

The answer to the RAI was given by Yoda against my allies - only 2 axis HQs and 5-6 air. The problem is: Axis should never fear to engage RAF - better axis planes hit first than London RAF forcing intercepts using the London AA bug.

Soon enough, UK will have to choose - either reinforce AFs or send corps into France. Gradually, they will have problems keeping RAF at good strength due to their low income. Axis can, nevertheless, keep hitting with 3 AFs (over 7 str) and reinforce another 2.

3 AFs + 2 ground troops have almost 100% success in killing stuff in France.

I have to admit , against a 5 turn Poland and a longer Denmark, Axis will run into problems - just because they cannot afford 5 AFs early on to keep RAF engaged and UK can afford sending more corps into France.

Also one of the good parts of RAI is engaging the baltic fleet. It usually manages to kill the sub and maybe 1 cruiser at the expense of 1 or 2 uk ships. The capturing of danish strait is somewhat problematic and bid dependant - if allies afford to op move PAF there, they can capture the straits sometimes, further delaying the fall of Denmark.

Conclusion is: never do RAI against a polish breakthru and try to assess accurately if Axis have a chance for turn 3 Poland/Denmark. If the initial rolls for Axis in Poland suck - i.e. you need Warsaw garrison at a strength greater than 8, RAI could be a good option.

Test games vs Terif were played under 'no polish breakthru' assumption.

Both games he used Bock for LC turn2. First game he failed the invasion because of 2 RAF and FAF intercepting all 3 LFs and reducing their odds vs LC corps to 0-1. He got unlucky and failed. But nevertheless he took LC the following turns. He got France in September. My mistake was to go 100% all in instead of forcing NA subs to surprise hits. The mpp drain was collossal for UK because of those 2 pesky subs.

Second game was played under 'axis take LC in turn 2' assumption, so we don't waste time. I wanted to see how RAI plays under a normal axis minor capturing sequence (i.e. turn 3 poland/denmark). Result was - axis completely obliterated allies because of the early breakthru in the forest hex (imho the biggest flaw of RAI, too few ground troops). after breakingthru in turn 4 or 5 (can't remember) the result was clear and allies went 125% all in losing carriers and other goodies

q.e.d

[ May 30, 2005, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: hellraiser ]

[Terif]

...and I was prepared for Rambos RAI .

Rambo surrendered as Allies with bid 250 in 1:5:30 already in April 1940 after his defence lines broke (only 7 defenders left...) and Italy joined .

RAI leads to high losses for both sides, but Axis can replace them after France easily in contrary to Allies. This more than compensates for a potential later Paris and is longterm very bad for Allies even if they don´t sacrifice their carriers...

[zappsweden]

There are 3 options for UK. Either put pressure early on and intend to keep it throughout the game (France, mid-game) in a mission to delay Axis or they try to be as strong as they can for D-Day. A third option is to invest in tech and when they get jets to use it in the mid-game.

IMO, goint toe-to-toe with Axis in France might not be so bad. Later Paris means later Italy, means that Allies can get better chance of putting a RAF in egypt stalling Italy for a while and means Allies can get a payoff at dealying Axis in the mid-game. Yes, when Romania and Hungary joins, every turn Axis has to delay the Spain invasion will cost loads of MPP in the end. Early Paris (June-July) will give Axis so much time so there is no way for Allies to hold Axis back until the minors join (enabling Spain invasion).

Delaying Axis in Vichy could mean a later Spain and later Egypt and make Barbarossa weaker and the other great benefit. If Germany meets oppostion throughout the game, they prolly wont have 10 chits when barbarossa start and not so good Jets (probably). UK do not need tech as much as Germany because Germany has the russian 5000+ MPP to face. Unteched, it is very bad for Axis.

Since Sea-Lion is becoming more and more unusual, Allies should not be afraid to mix it up. However, once large numbers of Luftwaffe show up ofcourse UK has to fall back.

[ May 30, 2005, 04:48 AM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]