JerseyJohn Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hubert, As the Allies I have just experienced a truly amazing Barbarossa invasion. The more so as it took place in January! In the real war aircraft found it difficult to fly in Russia during the winter. Tanks, especially German, often either froze (especially the first winter) or had difficulty advancing very quickly due to deep snow and hidden ice, and the Baltic coast would constitute nobody's idea of a good staging area for winter amphibious landings -- high winds, frequent snow, tall ice cold waves, etc & etc.. Yet, assuming Germany even had the capability for large amphibious landings at all, it made one in the Baltic, in January, on a scale that made the Normandy landing seem like a skirmish! I have no complaints against my opponent for making these moves. It's permitted in the game system and should be done. My complaint is that it can be done at all! Meanwhile, along the Frontier, . . . Germany streamed into Russia as though it were summer, cutting and slashing, surrounding units without a problem and penetrating farther into the Russian hinterland than was done historically in mid-summer! In the first two weeks of the campaign, Russia lost the following: 4 Armies, 2 Tank Groups, 1 Air Fleet and 1 corps in addition to losing Riga immediately. Aside from the Riga landings, involving several armies and panzer groups, German corps also came ashore two hexes south of Leningrad triggering Finland to enter the Axis. Also, 3 armies were surrounded along the border, completely cut off with strengths of 1, 3 and 5, doomed for easy destruction the following turn. Russia’s revised losses for the first two weeks: 7 Armies 2 Tank Groups 1 Air Fleet 1 Corps 1 city and 1 port For good measure Odessa starts out nearly outflanked. And the USSR hasn’t made it’s first turn yet! That this can be done at all is ridiculous. That it can be done in January is a face. A German invasion of Russia starting in the late Fall, Winter or early Spring would not have moved very far and amphibious landings, even by a country that was properly equipped and knew what it was doing, would have been impossible until the summer. You’ve proven you’re a responsible game designer with a lot of integrity and pride. In addition to that you’re a great guy and obviously an avid history buff. I say this because a situation of this sort is not worthy of the effort you've put into this game. I appeal to you personally to create a realistic Russian Winter and Amphibious Landing system for this version of SC, along with corrections for the Low Country Gambit, Germany's flailing Poland-Denmark-Low Country simultaneous invasions (what's that about anyway!) and the Italian Gambit. Without such corrections there’s no point in going against experienced players who learn how to use these quirks. House Rules are not the Answer. Thank You, JerseyJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hi Hubert, Please don't make SC-2 in the European theatre. Maybe adjust SC after some additional input from the top players & testers. Make these games w/ ideas: 1) U.S. Civil War game on a strategic level. You'll need to change the combat system a little. Ever play the classic hex game "Civil War"? Check out the combat system, pretty cool. That game is an absolute blast. By Victory games I think. If you make that game, I'll buy for $100. 2) SC-2 --- If you must, goto the pacific & make all new combat system. Current SC is awesome, just needs a few changes. 3) New World exploration game --- Make it 4-player online strategic! Like the classic hex game Conquistador, England, France, Portugal, & Spain. 4) How about something in the Roman era? 4-player? If you make a game that is 4-player strategic, that would be ground breaking! Human vs Human vs Human vs Human. Would open all kinds of possibilities. Also, please make a SC-patch that allows people who aren't even playing to view other's games live. If you can make 'em, I'll buy 'em & promote. For the love of the game, Rambo-Hollywood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 1.) if you want a bit more realism to Naval warfare add in all the possiblities that went with the real war. We picked reasonable days to land in weather that was ideal. We picked days to launch campaigns. The best thing to do is give bonuses to those ideal conditions and penalties to those which are not. Even high casualty rates, which is historical, not too detalied and just dandy for most players adding to our gameplay... i.e. if you launch transport in Winter weather onto a beach head there is a 45% chance it will not making a landing. If it does, it will also incur more casaulties, say as much as 40% making Winter amphibious landings possible but more risky... as with Armor.. In Rainy months of early Spring, perhaps hindering their Readiness again on a chance factor... That perhaps it's a great dry Spring day, or maybe it's all wet and nasty. Give bonuses to coastal defenders against Aerial assualts, coastal bombardment and amphibious attacks at optimum conditions for defense... Just like real war All things should be looked over details are the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaWolf_48 Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 JERSEY What are you thinking, German tanks, trucks, carts, and VW's were all crossing over Ice Pack in the Baltic. It's as simple as that. Like the Lake Ladoga express, okay, don't be a stickler for Historic details. Your point is well taken about the Russian winter! It would make the gameplayer harder for the German Army to conquer Russia, which would be helpful. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 SeaWolf Forgot all about the Ice Pack Factor! Glad you agree about the Russian Winter and amphibious operations being more plausable. [ June 12, 2003, 11:28 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hubert I know there are programming factors involved and I'm not a programmer, but would something like this be feasable in the present version? I'd be satisfied with this sort of fix and content to wait for SC 2 to see something more comprehensive on the subject. Please respond -- if you say it's impossible or I'm nuts I promise not to take it the wrong way. Also, if there's some other reason it can't be done in SC 1, I agree not to mention either subject again. Russian Winter Movement: Effects Ground Units in Russia, Norway, Sweden & Finland but has no effect on operate or transport functions. December & January = 1 hex movement November & February = 2 hexes movement October & March = 3 hexes maximum movement Amphibious Landings Atlantic - North Sea - Baltic Sea landings can only be conducted during June-July-and August. Mediteranean, Black and Red Seas landings can be conducted during All months. These rules would still be leaving a lot of factors out, but the overall effect would be more realistic. [ June 12, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Thanks for the questions and comments in this thread from everyone, and while I don't disagree with most if not all of the ideas found here and in other threads, unfortunately for SC, other than the final release of patch v1.07 there will be no more changes to the current game engine. There are a variety of reasons for this which I won't get into here , but I accept everyone's patience until the release of SC2, thanks! Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted June 13, 2003 Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hubert Thanks for the response. It was a couple of ideas I thought might be squeezed into SC but if it can't be done that's another story. As per my solemn vow, I will no longer request the above stated items. Looking forward to SC 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Boggs Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Originally posted by Hubert Cater: but I accept everyone's patience Hubert Well who could ask for more! That's a better deal than I get from my HMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Hubert, Can you give us a general indication of the timeframe in which SC2 is likely to come out? Can you give us a general indication of what SC2 is likely or unlikely to include? Oak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Cater Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Unfortunately I'm not really prepared to speculate on a timeframe or to divulge the contents just yet, but keep in mind that the original took me a couple of years to develop so this might put things into perspective considering I am still a one man development team.... but hopefully this time around won't be as long a wait as last time (believe me it's better for me as well) Hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Thanks for the update. When do you think 1.07 will be finalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCPilot Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Hope it's soon. Anyway, on to SC2 ...perhaps instead of World War II in Europe, it could be World War III in the World!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer39 Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Or WWII with the whole world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Hi Hubert, Sounds like SC-2 will be a remake of SC with a new engine (combat system)? I guess WW-2 Europe is the most popular & easiest to make since you've already created this masterpiece. SC-Pacific would need a brainstorm effort to make the naval & air interesting. Hubert, do you ever play SC? How about a little hint of SC-2? Like, will Germany be in the game? Weather? Strategic level? Etc. Be cool, give us some hints. Marketing always likes to slip information out slowly. Rambo-Hollywood-Vegas, from Boise sitting on my new LazyBoy chair >>>>>>>> out [ June 15, 2003, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 it's nearly impossible to include an authentic seperate Pacific theatre. Unless you truly wish to make a HUGE game. In otherwards, that's an entirely different arena and is near impossible to include in the current system. I imagine the best thoughts for an SC2 will include just 'further detail' that's important enough. We just want more detail, more strageties possible. A complete alteration on the current engine to make it that much more interesting, complex yet simple. Which adds the the playability, I highly suggest that someone offer forth the effort to make a linked Pacific-European Theatre. There are probably hundreds of programmers and designers out there that could assist Hubert and it would be a great great addition to our game to have that quality there. Perhaps two seperate Theatre that in the end ultimately influence the game. Which would make us all think double about our options and make our game that much more interesting. Although, Pacific Islands for the most part until you get closer to Australia have no significant value whatsoever. Island hopping would be next to useless... just for stragetic steps towards the mainland of Japan. Also, an intelligent Japan would never go all out and would have the #s to keep the USA off for many many years...Which may, if included in some sorta package deal, offer an interesting concept... The US, and UK dedicating such resources to the East. With Japan open to invade Siberian Russia with a 'real' invasion force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts