SC Patch on a Microsoft example

[Curry]

I dont think Battlefront is serious about a SC-II and if they are then its time line is so far out that many of us will lose interest in the game before it comes out.

However, I believe Battlefront could put out a simple patch based on something Microsoft did that will help the game out greatly.

I use to play a lot of AOE by Microsoft. (Age of Empires series). I played it on the zone for ratings. There are thousands of serious players of that game and I actually think there were more before. The game has gotten old.

I am sure that Microsoft with their big bucks beta tested the game to death. However, like all games after it came out and serious players spent hours playing and dissecting the game they found tricks and gambits that the authors of the game never intended.

Microsoft patched it. Like Battlefront has done. However, Microsoft did one simple patch and did one thing in that patch that I do not believe Battlefront has done. I could be wrong. But Microsoft solved many of the tricks and gambits by changing the costs of things in the game. They really didn’t find out what things should cost until they saw how players would use things. How serious players would use things to win I might add.

Has Battlefront ever provided a patch that has changed the cost of certain things to bring it to reality and balance the game for how it was intended?

Battlefront could provide a simple patch changing the cost of just three areas which would greatly change the game. It would give SC new life to old players and balance the play.

1. Change the starting cost of units to reflect how players use the units. Air needs to cost more - increase to 500. Tanks increase. Subs lowered to tempt the axis to use them. What would you set the MPP cost for?

2. Change the cost for Russian War readiness. Increase the cost for invading countires that were not histocially invaded by the axis. Sweden, Spain, Port, Iraq. This would help the allies. Terif has this game down so well he could give a good player 5000 MPP points to Russia. He would then "cookie cutter" his way as the axis taking every country but Turkey and be ready to invade Russia with a formidable force and win the Russian War. I doubt that is how the author of the game thought the game would be played out.

3. Cost for tech. Make investing in tech or in certain tech more expensive.

Just an idea.

[ October 01, 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Curry ]

[Comrade Trapp]

Curry

Not a bad idea, although Hubert would be the one to ask about that, Battlefront doesn't deal with the game design, I think sales and support is their area.

I agree with everything you said except for changing the cost of researching tech. The cost isn't the problem, its the system itself. Some people put 5 chits into Jet tech and get nothing while the other guy puts 1 chit into Jet tech and gets +1 the on the first try.

Comrade Trapp

[Curry]

I would change the opening costs for units

Army - 250 to 225, Corps 125 to 100.

Air 400 to 500 (same as S-Bombers)

Carriers 700 to 800

Tanks 325 to 350

Rockets 385 to 300

Subs 325 to 300

Forget what you think they should cost historically. Think what they should cost to make the game better.

[Curry]

Comrade, you are right on the Tech. But it would still cost more which would make you think more before investing so much. But the bottom line is you are correct.

[Jordy]

I think this is a great idea. Its just a round-about way of putting limits on the number of units that can be built.

[Hubert Cater]

Originally posted by Curry:

I dont think Battlefront is serious about a SC-II and if they are then its time line is so far out that many of us will lose interest in the game before it comes out.

Actually you can only blame me for this as developer of SC, and truth be told I consider myself to be pretty serious about SC II

I realize I haven't said much about the next game, but as I said before I prefer to work this way... since once announcements are made I would like to have myself available to answer questions and get involved a bit more within the forums. This in reality is very difficult to do when you are a lone wolf developer like myself who needs to remain focused on development.

If the concern is the timeline on when SC II will be available, believe me the quality and time to market will only be better/quicker this way More time spent here chatting with this rowdy bunch is less time for me hammering out code

Hubert

[Curry]

Hubert,

Thanks for responding on this.

We havnt heard about SC-II for so long its sort of become a myth. I am glad that you have rested our hearts at ease with some authority that it is not just a myth but a reality.

I for one dont expect you to be here chatting with this rowdy crowd. Very surprised you even check the boards. (But glad you do). We are here for the community anyway,,,

So stop posting and get busy hammering out code. (And remember to make those Jets more expensive too )

You made a great game and I'm sure you will make it even better. Keep up the good work!!!!!!

[Curry]

ps - just change the cost for some of the units in a patch and it could serve as a beta-test for SC two....

Air to 500

Subs to 300

Tanks to 350

Carriers to 800

Corps to 100

[pzgndr]

You see? That minute or two it took Hubert to respond just means another minute or two LONGER we have to wait for SC2!

[Jordy]

No it doesn't, it should mean a minute or two less he has to eat or sleep. Nothing should take time away from the development of SCII.

Well, maybe a patch.

[Jordy]

Oh, and Curry don't forget the change to the price of Armies and Rockets.

[ October 01, 2003, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: Jordy ]

[zappsweden]

I have also (ages ago) suggested changing some costs to make the game more balanced and exciting. Curry. One thing you ought to rememeber is that if u set too low costs for ground units, it affects the map alot. The map will be swarmed with units if they are too cheap. Simply put, they will be easier to build than to destroy. Therefore, I would not decrease any unit costs (except for some naval units).

The other thing is the MPP balance. Since Axis conquer Spain, Iraq and everything else before barbarossa (or simitaneously as Barbarossa if increased penalties), I feel that Russia need off-map MPP to compensate.

Unit costs modification:

1) Air fleet cost 500 (old price 400)

2) Bomber cost 450 (old price 500)

3) Battleship cost 540 (old price 600)

4) Cruiser cost 450 (old price 500)

5) Rocket cost 280 (old price 350)

6) Sub cost 300 (old price 325)

MPP balance (off-map production):

Russia 100 MPP

UK 20 MPP

Germany 30 MPP

Comment:

In general, it is good giving off-map production to the major countries to make the game less dependant on conquering minors.

Conclusion:

With my proposals, Navy will not become bystanders that are too expensive to repair and build. With my proposals, Russia can turn the tide despite being severely pushed back (like in real WW2).

[ October 01, 2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: zappsweden ]

[KDG]

Just give us a basic unit editor that allows us to change the MPP costs of units, then anyone can set what ever cost they want.

I wonder if a hex editor or something of its type would work, and wonder as well if Hubert would have a problem with that.

[Shaka of Carthage]

While a hex editor would work, thats' not ethical since you are modifying propritiry code.

Hopefully, Mr H is working on or considering a expanded Campaign Editor for SC2.

But for SC, if he's not considering releasing some sort of Unit Editor (for $$), it would be a wise move for him to give permission or authorize someone to develop a free Unit Editor, something I and a few others have offered to do.

Modifying the Unit values, would greatly expand the possibilities, while not confusing the existing AI, something a Terrain Editor would do.

[Curry]

Zapp, thanks for adding to this. And I agree with you about the Naval forces beling slightly less expensive. I think that would be a good move.

[Hubert Cater]

Originally posted by Shaka of Carthage:

While a hex editor would work, thats' not ethical since you are modifying propritiry code.

Hopefully, Mr H is working on or considering a expanded Campaign Editor for SC2.

But for SC, if he's not considering releasing some sort of Unit Editor (for $$), it would be a wise move for him to give permission or authorize someone to develop a free Unit Editor, something I and a few others have offered to do.

Modifying the Unit values, would greatly expand the possibilities, while not confusing the existing AI, something a Terrain Editor would do

Just wanted to pop in on the idea of an extended editor for SC as it has come up several times. While there are no plans to sanction an extended editor for SC1, either by myself or from a third party, the good news is that SC2 will have much more extensive editing capabilities. I won't commit to exactly what those will be just yet, as it is still to be 100% determined, but the ability to edit unit values and much much more should be there .

Hope this helps,

Hubert

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

I think I am correct in saying SC was Mr Cater's first creation.

Frankly I think the man did a very good job on his first try.

That he might give us SC2 eventually, will please a lot of people obviously.

What I think needs to be said, is SC2 will likely be a major enhancement to the SC experience if his first creation is any indication.

I know I will likely be in there with cash ready. Can't see it being a bad purchase at any rate.

[ October 05, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Les the Sarge 9-1 ]

[Hubert Cater]

Thanks Les

Hubert

[Liam]

I look forward to the release of SC2. So long as it in the spirit of the first one and enhanced. All games, have gamey flaws. I was inter-rookie ranked Ages of Empires Player..for some reason that's a game that not even the best guys unless you use hotkeys can ever get really good at.<it's all about speed> A lot Arcade like aspects to it. I wouldn't really compare it to a turn based Strategic Command. The final Patch you're about, the C Patch, only stop hacked proggies that allowed you to get illegal maps, resources, information about your enemy. Mostly a bunch of people pretending to be better at a game than they really were for attention, how boring. There were other flaws you could exploit. Like pulling the plug when you were losing badly, lagging the game into an Incomplete, even go as far as setting up the Teams. People use to buy Ranked accounts Lordy, I hope SC doesn't become anything like that, and SC2 either. In our Axis & Allies group I was banned<won't say by who> for bringing up the fact that there was a DiceHack for the random Dice Generator for the game. It was quite obvious to the whole Bulletin Board I spoke on but the Moderators didn't want that acknowledged as being a reality<guess they were living in some plastic world>;I think now they're bored is ranked last in Axis & Allies boards> hehe

This game is hard to tamper with cause it's mainly us old fashioned Wargamers, that's refreshing. The only parts of it that are being exploited are what would be exploited with any game. An editor would be nice! Although like HOI, EU1-2, etc... In the end you get like 4,000 edits and patches. It's fun, though the mere figures can make your head spin The end result isn't all that much different. There is always something you do, that another player'll find gamey.<I'd however like to Strategic Command II stronger on the best parts of SCI>

[ October 05, 2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

[Les the Sarge 9-1]

I have only one thing to say to people that use cheat codes, or cheat in any manner in a game the supposedly has something to do with using one's brain.

And my response sounds amazingly similar to when I laugh actually.

Hehehehehehehehehahahahahahahahahahahheheheheheeh

I don't have to worry about losing respect for a cheater, they never even had respect for themselves in the first place after all.

[Liam]

Cheating is boring because if you remeber playing Monopoly as a kid, if you allot yourself extra money under the table it's already over, so why play?

Now in the case playing a better player, if you work out a reasonable handicap I don't mind that.

And also if you're playing for something that you gotta have Like Claudia Schiffer or 10 billions bucks, I'm sorry then I'm gonna cheat all over the block