Jarmo Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 It just hit me, with a 1 man turret, who's doing the shooting/loading when the "commander" decides to grab some fresh air? Or does he load and shoot from the hip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Haven't played with any 1MT vehciles yet, but, you are right. It should be BU if it's going to fire its MA or CMG. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Why? can't the guy stay unbuttoned to spot then poke back in to shoot? That's what I would be doing? Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 3, 2001 Author Share Posted January 3, 2001 Sure the guy can stay unbuttoned as long as he likes, but no way can he keep popping up to observe between loading and and firing, still maintaining any kind of ROF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Maybe he's ambidextrous and loading with his feet. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Ack! Nooooo.... Okay.. You are either button or NOT-button. Do you know what buttoned means? It DOESN'T mean having you head below the hatch level. It MEANS have the hatch closed and possibly locked becuase you are being shot at. If you have the hatch open you are unbotton regardless of wether you are below or above the hatch level. Anyway, the Hotchkiss has a VERY SLOW rate of fire to begin with. Whew... Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shatter Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: It just hit me, with a 1 man turret, who's doing the shooting/loading when the "commander" decides to grab some fresh air? Or does he load and shoot from the hip? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> NO he is just very good with his feet. Sorry Bruno I did not see your post. [This message has been edited by Shatter (edited 01-03-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Also, Hotchkiss had a pretty large driver hatch that opened to front, so it might be that the driver is doing the looking. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 The driver could be looking, but I kinda doubt it. It'd be somewhat suicidal. You can duck a lot faster than you can close a hatch. And the driver wouldn't get a proper overview anyway, sees only forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 Anything else? I'm kinda not happy yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Anything else? I'm kinda not happy yet...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How about a warm glass of milk and some cookies? Works for Santa Claus.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Jarmo said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It just hit me, with a 1 man turret, who's doing the shooting/loading when the "commander" decides to grab some fresh air?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Remember that a CM turn is a full minute. During that time, it seems to me quite possible for the H-39 "T"C to poke his head up for a quick look around between shots, then drop back down to do his other jobs. Such an abstraction seems to me in keeping with the ways in which CM handles other individuals. For example, we all know CM doesn't keep track of the position of every member of a squad. OTOH, I have found that leaving H-39s unbuttoned in combat has a real disadvantage. If the "T"C is killed, the driver bails out, thus effectively destroying the "tank". IOW, I have never seen a shocked H-39. This seems reasonable because the "tank" is no longer capable of any offensive action. But it makes smallarms into effective "tank" killers, instead of just cripplers. Thus, regardless of any advantage to being unbuttoned, I think the disadvantage of greatly increased vulnerability outweighs it enough to keep the "tanks" buttoned ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 Yeah, I always keep them buttoned myself, so it's no major issue anyway. BTW, I wouldn't expect the remaining crewmember to abandon the vehicle if the commander is hit. Sounds like the kind of action leading to the court martial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Yeah, I always keep them buttoned myself, so it's no major issue anyway. BTW, I wouldn't expect the remaining crewmember to abandon the vehicle if the commander is hit. Sounds like the kind of action leading to the court martial.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A court marshall for bailing out of a Hotchkiss... jeez you're a hard man. All crew members should be receiving the Iron Cross 1st Class just for crewing the mobile coffin. I can tell you, if I was inside it & being shot at by anything larger than air-gun I'd probably bail myself at the earliest opportunity, wouldn't you? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 I tried 'em out a while ago. In a role they are somewhat suited for. I set up an allied mechanized attack, vs german armored. The AI picked british forces, some halftracks and arty with a lot of infantry. I picked a fleet oh H-39's. Then I just drove them against the enemy hordes, completely and utterly smashing them. I don't think I've ever defended against an attack so easily. Lost one kisser to the arty and 2 were immobilized. 1 casualty. Piat's did their best, but as soon as one popped up, he was met by half a dozen blazing MG's. I don't think I'd have done better with StuH's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: I tried 'em out a while ago. In a role they are somewhat suited for. I set up an allied mechanized attack, vs german armored. The AI picked british forces, some halftracks and arty with a lot of infantry. I picked a fleet oh H-39's. Then I just drove them against the enemy hordes, completely and utterly smashing them. I don't think I've ever defended against an attack so easily. Lost one kisser to the arty and 2 were immobilized. 1 casualty. Piat's did their best, but as soon as one popped up, he was met by half a dozen blazing MG's. I don't think I'd have done better with StuH's.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm shocked! 1940's French made tanks winning the day... what is the world coming to... Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JoePrivate: How about a warm glass of milk and some cookies? Works for Santa Claus....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mmmmmm...coookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Mmmmmm...coookies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> See, ain't life sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Jarmo said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The AI picked british forces, some halftracks and arty with a lot of infantry. I picked a fleet oh H-39's. Then I just drove them against the enemy hordes, completely and utterly smashing them<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I set up a battle of 14 H-39s vs. 2 M5 Stuarts at 400m, totally open, flat terrain, head-on. The H-39s poured their fire on the M5s, achieving hit after hit, all doing no damage, not even to tracks and exposed TCs. In fact, the Stuart TCs rarely even bothered to button up after a ricochet. Meanwhile, the M5s slaughtered the H-39s. In a few turns, they were all dead or abandoned. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 I think Charles whacks the RoF quite a bit when it is unbuttoned. But I will run this by him for future consideration because on the Eastern Front we will see more of this (2 man turrets have similar problems). Someday we will rework the crew casualty modeling to allow something like the H-39 to still be able to drive around even if the commander is whacked. The current modeling was really designed for 4 and 5 man crews that have 2 casualties or more. The likely circumstances that would cause this would also likely cause the vehicle to be abandoned. But it is true... the driver of a H-39 would simply drive back to the rear if the TC was killed, not bail out. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: I set up a battle of 14 H-39s vs. 2 M5 Stuarts<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey! No fair! You keep your übertanks away from my purty 'kisses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally by BTS: I think Charles whacks...I will run...we will see more...problems). ... it is true... H-39 would simply...rear<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (some unnecessary drivel edited away) I'm a happy camper now! [This message has been edited by Jarmo (edited 01-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Hey! No fair! You keep your übertanks away from my purty 'kisses! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In that company, a bloody Matilda I is an ubertank! Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted January 5, 2001 Author Share Posted January 5, 2001 Yeah, yeah, but kisser is real badass against trucks, jeeps and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Yeah, yeah, but kisser is real badass against trucks, jeeps and such.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well trucks maybe, hang on I'll retract that... crews of trucks maybe, provided they're out of pistol range. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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