Denizen Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 I have to share an experience I recently had in a QB. I had given the order to 4 M3A1 HTs to move a rifle platoon through scattered woods , hoping that I would be able to sneak up and flank the AI, which was cowering in a small village. Then an artillery round (unknown caliber, but this was a 800pt battle) explodes harmlessly near the HTs. Though I was angered that I had been spotted, I wasn't too concerned since my HTs were already on the move. The second artillery round landed in the center of my HT formation, abut 2m from the closest HT. That SINGLE ROUND knocked out 3 of the HTs and caused about 30 causalities to the squads and crew in the vehicles. I have seen artillery do amazing things, but never before had I seen one shot do so much damage. I must have watched the replay 30 times. Needless to say, I lost that battle, and there were only 3 survivors from the HTs when the artillery barrage ended. Has anyone had an experience like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curih Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 I haven't had it happen from one round, but artillery can be devastating. One example I can think of was a TCP/IP game I played where my opponent was having a very tough time advancing toward my troops in a town because of heavy snow. Near the end of the game he pulled his ace and dropped some 155mm arty inot the town knocking out my last Hetzer and rendering 2+ platoons combat noneffective if not completely destroyed. A two turn barrage ended my chances at winning. curih Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Originally posted by Denizen: Has anyone had an experience like that? Yes I have. In had 2 tanks advancing together passing the 3rd tank in overwatch with supporting infantry moving along their flanks. First arty round (German 240mm)lands right in the middle of the 3 tanks. All 3 tanks are shocked, Sherman's gun is knocked out and both Churchills are immobolized. The infantry runs for the hills (that isn't killed outright) and at the end of the turn the Sherman is burning, both Churchills are abandon, dead infantry everywhere and the surviors are paniced/routed. Lession learned, don't put your attacking force together in the open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Originally posted by Cos: Lession learned, don't put your attacking force together in the open You want to be careful about packing them into covered terrain too. There's nothing like a few well-timed tree bursts to put the wind up a platoon. And if a single shell can knock out more than one of your vehicles, you need to disperse them much more widely. From how it sounds, not only have you made them vulnerable to indirect fire, they would be easy pickings for a well-sited AT gun too. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 02-23-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Not when you witness the power of 14" naval guns! Too bad they are only avaible in the first 2 months in CMBO timeline. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 I see this far too often. My HTs and my infantry can dissappear in a single turn due to artillery. Attack the AI where the scenario designer gives big and lots of artillery to the defender. Its like the AI will read your mind. Even charging forward, the next barrage drops right on their heads and there goes three or four more HTs. My number one cause of infantry and vehicle casualties is artillery. I'm amazed how deadly and decisive artillery can be in this game. It makes you scream. I can't stand it sometimes. I disperse, but you have to concentrate fire power. Has anyone noticed the AI ability being much better with artillery in 1.12? Probably not. Just seems a little on the side of miracle time to target. But it could be the operation I am now playing, where the US defenders have big tubes and lots of it. I never suffered such an Artillery thrashing or observed such uncanny ability to "walk" my troops as I've experienced in the snowy hell I find myself in now. I don't know why I have infantry? They show their face and get artilleried off the map... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Yep, after 1.1x, the TacAI artillery spotters no longer rush into your position like regular grunts. Instead they stay low profile in woods or houses where they can see you to unleash firestorm from the sky on you. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 That was the main cause of enthousiasm for me over Steel Panthers (3D View and WeGo system notwithstanding). In SP you had to shell them with guns over 155 to do some earth moving and hope for a satisfiyng result. In CM as in Real Life you can kick some butts with a well timed and placed 81 barrage. Artillery IS the biggest joy for me in this game. ------------------ You are not Obsessive-CMpulsive, you are Allied-Retentive. Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 As we Redlegs have always said, "The purpose of the maneuver forces is to find and fix the enemy so he can be destroyed by firepower. Maneuver supports and supplements the power of the gun (and other fire delivery methods)" A Russian artillery saying, "There IS artillery-all else is just targets-no matter which side" However I would question the effectiveness of CM artillery (especially VT and Ti) on dug in troops with overhead cover (heavy buildings). As WWI proved it takes a hell of a lot of HE to blow troops out of fortifications. Ernst Junger, a German who survived 4 years in the trenches noted that his 100 meter by 20 meter wide piece of trench line took some 100 rounds (one hundred)direct hits an hour during the height of the Somme pre-bombardment, which was days long.Yet he and enough troops survived to man the MGs to stop massed infantry attacks on the wire. Dispersion and digging in, two of your best counters to artillery PLUS and unfortunately not modelled in CM, counter-fire will save you from the enemies fire support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cos Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Originally posted by Michael emrys: And if a single shell can knock out more than one of your vehicles, you need to disperse them much more widely. From how it sounds, not only have you made them vulnerable to indirect fire, they would be easy pickings for a well-sited AT gun too. Michael That's true too. The situation was heavy rain and wet ground. Had to move the tanks along the road from getting bogged down. As the 2 churchills were passing the Sherman on the road is when the 1st round hit. In otherwords, walked into a prefect trap. Of course this is after I put my attacking force together in the open, giving the spotter more then enough time to zero in on me. I did learn a few things from that, in addition to losing the scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Some approaches to countering artillery: Start taking down all two story buildings in his zone with heavy direct fire on turn one. If you get a response in turn two you have probably found a spotter. What happens from there is the luck of the draw, but at a minimum he will have expended some rounds on something other than your front line troops. If on the attack assume that every clump of woods within the defensive zone (top 1/3 of the map) has a TRP. It takes less than a minute to call in a fire mission on a TRP that is in LOS of the spotter. You can either go around the clumps, at the risk of crossing open ground, or through them, but in column and very, very quickly. Any choice is better then having your main body at the receiving end of an artillery barrage. Against the big stuff the only defense is to get close enough to his guys to make the risk of dumping a barrage on you too great for him. If you get within his defensive perimeter and discover that there is (strangely) no infantry opposition close by then you are probably in a barrage zone. Generally, try not to concentrate troops in the same area for more than a turn, especially if that area is likely to be in the LOS of a spotter. If anybody has more ideas I'd like to hear them. Nothing worse than losing a battle in single turn and it can happen very easily when you're on the wrong end of a barrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Originally posted by Ksak: Some approaches to countering artillery: ... Hmm... Try to use concealed movement routes... Don't take a straight line for anything involving more than a turn... Eliminate/suppress enemy observation points... Leaps and bounds... Leaps and bounds... ------------------ To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted February 23, 2001 Share Posted February 23, 2001 Agreed Herr Oberst (geez, I think I clicked my heels!) If the map is suitable, the skillful defender will have TRPs as deep into the exit points of the concealed routes as his LOS will allow. When your first troops pop out of the woods he will have a pretty good idea that there's lot more of your guys still moving through them, and 45 seconds later it's mayhem. Being on the receiving end of artillery is not a good thing anywhere on the map, but it has an evil multiplier effect if you get thumped within effective small arms range. Squads take off running in every direction and C&C is lost. Troops that do not become immediate casualties will probably become panicked and easy pickings for the next few turns while surviving HQs try to rally them. To make it really interesting the defender will have mined the area as well. Subvet taught me that lesson and I will not soon forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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