Jarmo Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Like most players, I really like the SMG squads when I play with germans. Much better value IMO than Rifle 44 or Rifle 45. Although SS rifle 45 has merit... But I'd also like to shop in a somewhat historic manner. So the question is, what was the ratio between Volksgrenadier and other formations? How about SS vs Heer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Let's see... From what I've understood VG was fairly common towards the end of the war. Almost as common as regular infantry. Waffen SS was more rare. Given that you want to use VG historically, I see no problem with you using them at all (from a rarity POW), but it's more interesting to know what to pick besides infantry. - VG divisions typically had very few motor vehicles, relying more on horse drawn vehicles for transport. (You may use trucks for substitute.) - AFVs of any kind are pretty much out of the question. (Includes halftracks and armoured cars.) Definitely no tanks available! - Most common artillery is 75mm (FK40, typical), with some odd 105mm howitzer or 15cm Nebelwerfer battery to spice it up. Think of the VG as something inbetween VS and regular infantry. Good firearms and lots of Panzerfausts are to make up for the lack of manpower and heavier support weapons. I'm sure somebody can cough up the TO&E for the 26th VG division that was used in the Ardennes offensive... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 The volksgrenadier division was the standard infantry division designation from fall 1944 until the end of the war. So yes, they were very common. Typically they were of rather poor quality, often formed from surplus personell from the air force, navy, etc. with minimal combat infantry training and inexperienced officers. Sometimes there were a sprinkling of veteran troops from destroyed divisions. As far as artillery support is concerned, the TO&E of a volksgrenadier division list a 75mm battalion and 105mm battalions. Typically there was also an assault gun company attached (Hetzers or StugIIIG). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 I have heard that VG divisions were a temporary bridge between Pattern 44 Infantry divisions and Pattern 45 Infantry divisions. Yes, they were around at the end of the war. Also, it seems that few of the infantry divisions converted to VG divisions ever quite made the complete VG OOB/TO&E. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 To be fairly historical with them, only buy green VG troops. Well armed, but ready to run like hell, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted March 28, 2001 Author Share Posted March 28, 2001 Ouh, this doesn't look good at all. So no tanks, or stuff like that but assault guns are OK? Maybe I'll just have to switch back to the gebir-panther-combo. This has thrown a serious donnerwetter in my plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 As far as off-board arty is concerned: CM gives one 75mm and one 81mm arty spotter to a volks battalion. I'm not claiming this is or isn't historically correct, but that is what you get in a CM volks battalion. ------------------ Craiger All your victory flag are belong to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Remember that the Germans frequently attached troops to form battle groups for specific purposes. So feel free to mix and match some units like tanks and stuff. But to be historically correct you should keep your infantry as all of one flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Originally posted by Jarmo: Maybe I'll just have to switch back to the gebir-panther-combo. Of course not! Never use Gebirgsjägers and vehicles in the same battle, if you want the typical historic approach... Just pick "Gebirgsjägers" as your force type. Then use what units are available... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted March 29, 2001 Author Share Posted March 29, 2001 Just kidding! I knew that much. It's just these 17 types of regular heer that have me stumped. Like fusiliers... some sort of recon force? Light AFV's, mainly cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Not all VG formations were "green". The aforementioned 26th VG was perhaps the best infantry division the Germans had in the Ardennes. It is my understanding that the VG designation started as a battle honor that got watered down over time. ------------------ "Roll on" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Originally posted by Jarmo: Like fusiliers... some sort of recon force? Light AFV's, mainly cars?Light recon, yes. As for their transport; one company in the battalion had bicycles, the others were foot sluggers. Other than that maybe a Kübelwagen for the battalion commander... (No other vehicles, AFAIK.) Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe: To be fairly historical with them, only buy green VG troops. Well armed, but ready to run like hell, lol. Or gimp like hell, given that by 1945 many VG'ers had leg, arm or stomach disorders that prevented them from serving in "line" divisions (whatever those were by 1945). MrSpkr ------------------ But we're saying goodbye to them all We're Harry's police force on call! So put back your pack on The next stop is Saigon Don't bless the few bless 'em all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 The VG concept was the brainchild of Count von Stauffenberg (yes the same guy that tried to bomb Hitler). The VG divisions were intended for purely a defensive role. Hence each regiment only had 2 battalions. Casualties and desperation led to the use of VG Divisions in an offensive role, something which they were not intended. For more information get Wolf Zoepf's book "Seven Days in January". Lot's of good info in that book. ------------------ Webmaster http://www.trailblazersww2.org http://www.vmfa251.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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