Freak Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 While I was checking a scenario I made for play balance I noticed an elite HMG 42 team open up on a buttoned Pershing tank about 30 - 50 meters out. The elite HMG 42 is up on a second story heavy building. Even if the HMG squad thought he might be sited by the pershing, wouldnt he run away, ie: drop the MG and get out of site from the tank rather then open up on the thing where he draws all his attention and has no chance of killing the tank ? Just a thought on the AI and and maybe the improvements we will see in CM2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-00 Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 It's late in the war and the section Rottenfurher still wants his Knight's Cross before it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamsters Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Plus he's confused by any battle that claims to be balanced yet has a Pershing and elite troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Perhaps he was trying to penetrate the top armor.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Making sure it stays buttoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Was it a manuevueorouevrerist or attrittiritionist HMG team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Trying to shoot the periscopes and imbed glass in the driver's eyes? Must have thought he was back in his ATR days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Well, it worked for Cpt. Miller in SPR, and he only had a pistol. ------------------ The Last Defense- Made any scenarios? Send them here! Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Origianlly posted by Hamster: Plus he's confused by any battle that claims to be balanced yet has a Pershing and elite troops. Yeah, especially since both of those never appeared in WWII, ever. Accourding to this forum, niether did King Tigers or Jumbos with 76mm guns. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 03-27-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 Infantry manuals often list vulnerable spots on tanks to aim for, including vision slits, periscopes, mg openings, etc. But I don't think CM is modelled to have the tank's situational awareness degraded (busted periscopes) from continual fire. It may make sense to do it in CM2, where tanks on the front line would have a hail of shot coming down on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted March 27, 2001 Share Posted March 27, 2001 By the time the pershing appeared in the ETO the germans had developed special tungsten bullets which penetrated up to 150mm of armor when fired from the second floor of buildings. It is rumored that when fired from the 3rd floor the special bullets could go thru 200m of armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 How widespread were these bullets in their availability, though, Bullethead? By the war's last year, I have the general impression that Germany's stock of tungsten was VERY limited. Or leastways, that enough was regularly available for larger ordnance rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porajkl Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Those bullets were suplied only to elite HMG teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 They were never fired until the 1.1 patch, which is why you never noticed them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Well, if I was an Elite HMG team and found myself in a two story building with a Pershing underneath me, not only would I open fire with the HMG, I would probably jump down on top of the tank and take it out by shooting my HMG through one of the vision slits, while gritting my combat knife between my teeth, with heroic music playing in the background! Rambo, eat your heart out. [This message has been edited by Doug Williams (edited 03-27-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Originally posted by Doug Williams: Well, if I was an Elite HMG team and found myself in a two story building with a Pershing underneath me, not only would I open fire with the HMG, I would probably jump down on top of the tank and take it out by shooting my HMG through one of the vision slits, while gritting my combat knife between my teeth, with heroic music playing in the background! And run as fast as you can the whole way, carrying all the ammo and spare barrels yourself. After all, you're an HMG team ------------------ The Last Defense- Made any scenarios? Send them here! Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 And run as fast as you can the whole way, carrying all the ammo and spare barrels yourself. After all, you're an HMG team. LOL! Yep, a regular one man wrecking crew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted March 28, 2001 Author Share Posted March 28, 2001 Well, the situation was one where the HMG was alone on the second floor and was hiding. There were a few allied tanks in the area plus some allied infantry which all had clear LOS to the HMG and no axis support. I don't know why he would want to fire his weapon against a unit that can't be penetrated by his weapon. Especially with all the odds against him. We would he do this? and not just surrender or continue to hide and be unseen? I am just trying to follow the logic of his thinking (the HMG) Also, I had a 2+ hide with a company HQ in C&C. [This message has been edited by Freak (edited 03-28-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porajkl Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Yesterday in one battle I forgot to "hide" those stupid HMGs in the setup phase. Those freaks (3 of them) opened up fire against 4 unbuttoned tanks 400 meters away on the first turn. (yeah, on 400 meters they really have great chance of killing small tank commander's head ). Needless to say what happened in a few seconds... All four tanks blazing guns at my HMGs. I was so angry that I let two of them die (one routed) and after that I aborted the battle. A lesson learned: never, never forget to hide those Rambos! From now on I'll always select ALL units and order them to hide on setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Did they were in that house I blasted with a 105mm, Porajkl? Just for a joke! Regards and see you on the battlefield! Ciao! Francesco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Were there really no elite troops in WW2? What about commandos and such like? Or the German fellas who "rescued" Mussolini? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 If you were refering to me, I hope you realize that I was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted March 28, 2001 Share Posted March 28, 2001 Originally posted by Guy w/gun: If you were refering to me, I hope you realize that I was being sarcastic. Oh. I thought you were referring to posts that other people had made. So elites did exist, you think? Just rare, like the manual says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 HMGs are maniacs. In a recent PBEM, I watched an entire platoon mangled because a regular HMG with a Hide order started firing on turn 1. A related problem is that you can't Sneak HMGs, which means that if they move while they can see the enemy, they are likely to open fire on their own initiative. This can be a particular problem in Chance Encounter. Given the current problems with HMGs not holding their wad, I'd say that merely firing on a buttoned tank at 50m is pretty tame. HMGs are simply too aggressive, which is why we need a command to tell the troops how aggressive they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted March 29, 2001 Author Share Posted March 29, 2001 Hey good points Leonidas. I agree with the over aggresiveness of the HMG squad. A command to control their aggresive mindset would be nice. I am hoping that for the future of CM (CM and beyond) that units such as HMG's are not as trigger happy as they are. I picture myself in a situation say the one I presented above and I cannot picture myself going up against those odds in any situation. I hope that presevation of units is emphasized more in CM 2 and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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