Kanonier Reichmann Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 With all the hulabaloo over that thread discussing Wespe's et al that knock themselves out when firing too close to buildings I'm wondering whether anybody has experienced a similar occurence by firing too close to a thick patch of woods? I personally haven't seen it in the games I've played when using Priest's, Wespe's or whatever but I can envisage a situation where an SPG that is right up close to a patch of thick woods with just barely a greyish line of sight through them could fire its main gun & hit a tree not far into the woods causing an explosion close enough to knock itself out. What are other people's experience with this potential phenomenon? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Not with the woods, only a flakwagon that killed itself firing into the corner of a building. I have had vehicles that I tried to put too close to a woods misinterpret the order and then attempt to do an end run around the woods to the other side to get to the position it thought I meant, usually exposing itself to enemy fire. (I'm sitting there watching the movie yelling; "No you dummy, get back.") Wishing I'd been more careful with the move and given it just a tad bit of space between it and the woods. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-31-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipmonkey Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I had a pair of Priests kill themselves when I ordered them to fire into some woods where is was getting infantry sound contacts. Unfortunatly for me, it was a heavy fog mission so I had to get them about 4-5m from the spot of woods. I ordered area fire from them, then watch in horror as they both fired and were destroyed by thier own back blasts. I learned never to take priests again on heavy fog missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: With all the hulabaloo over that thread discussing Wespe's et al that knock themselves out when firing too close to buildings I'm wondering whether anybody has experienced a similar occurence by firing too close to a thick patch of woods? I personally haven't seen it in the games I've played when using Priest's, Wespe's or whatever but I can envisage a situation where an SPG that is right up close to a patch of thick woods with just barely a greyish line of sight through them could fire its main gun & hit a tree not far into the woods causing an explosion close enough to knock itself out. What are other people's experience with this potential phenomenon? Regards Jim R. If you mean the gun was firing at a target further away and hit the intervening woods, then you can rest easy, as the way the engine works makes this impossible. The engine does not track the flight of the shell to its target. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 Regardless... On a more historical note: Artillery shells only armed themselves after they travel a set distance. This was done by a spinning mechanism in the shell. After the shell had made so many revolutions it could be determined it has travel X meters from its starting point and it would then arm. This was done to prevent FF to yourself from an accidental "short" shot. Mortars had no such thing.. They were armed with a spring mechanism that would arm itself when the mortar round accelerated out of the tube. From then on it would be "armed". FYI, Jeff ------------------ First of all, David, you stupid sot, if names were meant to be descriptive, everyone would have the, culturally appropriate, name of, "Ugly little purple person that cries and wets itself." -Meeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by jshandorf: Artillery shells only armed themselves after they travel a set distance. This was done by a spinning mechanism in the shell. After the shell had made so many revolutions it could be determined it has travel X meters from its starting point and it would then arm. Can you provide a documented example of this? The only cases I ever read of, the shell was armed by acceleration down the tube. It's hard for me to picture a mechanism inside a shell that is counting rotations, since by the time the shell leaves the tube, all parts of it are spinning at pretty much the same speed. I can imagine some sort of delay mechanism being built into the arming mechanism, but counting rotations sounds unlikely. Waiting for enlightenment. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by Michael emrys: Can you provide a documented example of this? The only cases I ever read of, the shell was armed by acceleration down the tube. It's hard for me to picture a mechanism inside a shell that is counting rotations, since by the time the shell leaves the tube, all parts of it are spinning at pretty much the same speed. I can imagine some sort of delay mechanism being built into the arming mechanism, but counting rotations sounds unlikely. Rotations are how 40mm grnades (for the 203 and Mk-19) are armed. I don't know of any diagrams of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacestick Posted February 1, 2001 Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by CavScout: Rotations are how 40mm grnades (for the 203 and Mk-19) are armed. I don't know of any diagrams of them though. Not true, the 40mm HE and HEDP rounds both have three breakaway pieces of metal covering the detonator of the round. These break and fly back uncovering the detonator due to inertia as the round is fired. I do not know about WW2 arty but I know for certain that 3 inch mortar ammo was not bore safe. As a young soldier we only fired 3 inch ammo out of our 81mm mortars in training using modified firing tables to expend old war stocks. The fuze fitted to these rounds was active the moment the pin was pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 1, 2001 Author Share Posted February 1, 2001 Thanks Michael for your concise answer, much appreciated. I now know it is safe to fire my SPG's no matter how close to the woods they are (provided they're not firing a few metres away from themselves of course!) Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 1, 2001 Author Share Posted February 1, 2001 Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: If you mean the gun was firing at a target further away and hit the intervening woods, then you can rest easy, as the way the engine works makes this impossible. The engine does not track the flight of the shell to its target. Jeff Heidman Sorry Jeff, I meant to thank you specifically for your answer. That'll teach me to post a reply without first quoting the relevant bit of info first... Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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