Gyrene Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 Has this topic come up before? I wonder why the flex mount MG's, like TC MG's can't be reloaded in the game? A .50 cal MG on a pintle mount gets fed from 100 round boxes, and a trained operator can change the can & reload in about 40 seconds to one minute under stressful situations (Granted not while under fire). As the game is now TC guns (Allied .50's in this case) have a load rating of 50, run out in about 6-8 turns and become useless for the rest of the game. I think it's a bit unreasonable that the TC would not have a chance to reload in a 30 turn or longer game, especially if the vehicle has not been under fire for a couple of turns in a row. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 the change of ammo boxes is already accounted for in the ammo counter. the ammo counter represents total ammo for the flex MG, including additional ammo boxes stored elsewhere. to compare, why do you think the MG 42 on a SdKfz 251 has an ammo counter of 57 when actually it had a total of 2,100 (and more) single rounds of ammo for the MG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 But should the flex .50cal on -say- Shermans be routinely available for ground combat in the first place? I thought it could only be used for AA defense unless one of the crew got out to fire it while standing on the back deck? Maybe it should only be available if there is someone riding on the tank (depending on the mounting location on each vehicle)? How much extra ammo for the flex is carried in the tank, BTW? - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 6, 2001 Share Posted November 6, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wolfe: But should the flex .50cal on -say- Shermans be routinely available for ground combat in the first place? I thought it could only be used for AA defense unless one of the crew got out to fire it while standing on the back deck? Maybe it should only be available if there is someone riding on the tank (depending on the mounting location on each vehicle)? <hr></blockquote> You've seen too much Band of Brothers The .50cal could be shot from the commander's open hatch. And still is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Chef Sakai Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 ok, i don't know about you guys, but prior to this game if i wanted to play a world war 2 strategy game i was stuck with panzer general. this game is the best game of this genre to date so you don't need to go over every little thing with a fine tooth comb, it's a computer game, if you want a totaly realistic experience go join the army or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redwolf: You've seen too much Band of Brothers <hr></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>The .50cal could be shot from the commander's open hatch. And still is today.<hr></blockquote> Glancing through Crismon's US Tracked Vehicles and Chamberlain's Brit and Ami Tanks, the .50cal looks like it's mounted *very* far back on some of the models. The M4A1(76)w (pg. 95 Crismon), M4A3(76)w (pg. 99 Crismon) and M4A3(76)w Easy Eight (pg. 119 Chamberlain) in particular. Sorry, no scanner. Edit: Ahh. Ok, I get it. The pintle itself was mounted on a ring that could be spun so the .50cal was in front of the hatch. Nevermind. - Chris [ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Earlier in the war the ,50 was mounted on a pintle welded to the top of the turret aft of the commander's hatch. That way, he could fire at straffing planes attacking from behind. Of course, after D-Day it was realized that the Luftwaffe was not going to be a big problem but German infantry was. There were a lot of field modifications done to position the .50 so that it could more easily be used against ground targets. But this was not universal. I have seen photos taken quite late in the war that show the TC or some infantryman kneeling behind the turret, firing the .50 at ground targets. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Here is an example of a M10, whose M2 is beeing operated from the deck : M10. Sorry, the photo is not good, but it is all I got . Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 The ammo is right, and it isn't just one box. The early Shermans carried 300 rounds of 50 cal and 4750 rounds of 30 cal (for the hull and coaxial combined). The late ones carried 600 rounds 50 cal and 6250 rounds 30 cal. Which matches the 12 + 190 and 24 + 250 MG ammo loads of CM exactly, on a "budget" of 25 bullets equals 1 CM shot. Note that the German MGs with their higher rate of fire use a "budget" of ~37.5-40 bullets per CM shot - thus their 50%-60% higher firepower, if you compare HMG teams. The cyclic rate of fire is more than double (around 2.4x actually), so the trigger is actually being depressed less of the time. Roughly, the 450-550 round per minute Allied MGs are modeled as firing 3 second bursts for each CM shot, while the 1200 round per minute German MGs are modeled as firing 2 second bursts for each CM shot. So an actual 100 round ammo box for the AA 50 cal is only good for 4 CM shots (about 12 seconds of depressed trigger), and they are being changed every turn of firing. The 3-6 boxes available go rather fast if the crew fights exposed for any length of time. Incidentally, here is a little factoid about practical reload times for roof mounted 50s. I was in an artillery unit, and the M-109 SP 155mm howitzer can roof mount a pintel 50 cal. So training on them was required. The time for the task of reloading was 15 seconds, and every private could do that with a bit of practice. The time allowed for mounting or dismounting the gun from the pintel was 2 minutes, and the competition was to get this time as low as possible. Everybody got it under 1 minute. The record I saw was set by one particular handy sergeant, who could mount or dismount the gun inside the 15 seconds allowed for just reloading it (though already standing on top of the vehicle when you say "go"). These are times in training, to be sure. But it is no great feat to reload a 50 cal, in a matter of seconds not minutes. [ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offtaskagain Posted November 7, 2001 Share Posted November 7, 2001 Audie Murphy fired the M2 from the deck of an M10 during his MOH engagement right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted November 7, 2001 Author Share Posted November 7, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> By JasonC: Which matches the 12 + 190 and 24 + 250 MG ammo loads of CM exactly, on a "budget" of 25 bullets equals 1 CM shot. <hr></blockquote> If that's the case, then I see why why they run out so fast. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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