Harold Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 The hopeful purpose of this thread is to get CM'ers to discuss the "real" details of the game. By this I mean what have you discovered in the game engine that others can use to form better attack or defense tactics. Here are some that I have found. 1) Infantry right behind walls can get 0% exposure from fire if it is coming from the same level or lower. Fire from higher levels does increase exposure. Infantry also hide quite well behind walls. 2) The Churchill is one tough tank to take out at roughtly 45% from the front. Even at 40m a Panzerscreck may not be able to do anything and a Jadgtiger rates only good on the kill %. 3) If you draw vehicular movement directly through non-moving infantry, the infantry WILL move, presumably a self preservation act to avoid being crushed by friendly treads. Now I am wondering if this also occurs when moving through enemy troops? Hmmm......... Some may dislike having their so-called secrets exposed but I believe that the game engine is really a set of real world rules that everyone can benefit from. Any others? Harold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalist Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Enemy infantry move out from in front of the tank as well...at least I haven't been able to kill anyone by an overrun attack. You should definitely be able to, its realistic and tactically sound. Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. "Small" buildings in CM represent two-story structures. I'm not an expert or anything, but I think that would pose a problem for a tank. This might be something for CM2, if there is a more sophisticated building damage model. -Andrew ------------------ "No, it's not that kind of relationship. We're just friends. We are together all the time, but I never touch her porcelain skin, her soft, red lips, like rose petals from the emperor's bathwater! Bathwater, I tell you, bathwateeeeeeer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Harold: 2) The Churchill is one tough tank to take out at roughtly 45% from the front. Even at 40m a Panzerscreck may not be able to do anything and a Jadgtiger rates only good on the kill %. Harold Here's my secret: don't believe to much in the invulnarability of tanks. I have already seen a Panther blown into pieces - by a 60mm mortar shell. And maybe you can't kill it, but immobilize it. When the spot moves to another point of the map, the tank is nothing but a pile of useless steel. And don't believe to much in 'use the game engine' tactics. This game is much to flexibel to seak those things. As example: see above. All IMO, of course ------------------ Keine Gefangenen! http://www.scipiobase.de/cm_mods.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: Enemy infantry move out from in front of the tank as well...at least I haven't been able to kill anyone by an overrun attack. You should definitely be able to, its realistic and tactically sound. Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. How sound is it? What infantry is going to sit there and let a tank run over them? Unless surprised, hard considering how much noise they make, infantry can get out of the way. If you model tanks crashing through buildings you need to model the possible damage to the tank, not to mention the chance of throwing track or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: Enemy infantry move out from in front of the tank as well...at least I haven't been able to kill anyone by an overrun attack. You should definitely be able to, its realistic and tactically sound. Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. The tanks would them become emeshed in the rubble or fall into the basement. Infantry tend to run away from several tons of steel comming at them. Only emplaced guns can be run over. Do a search. [This message has been edited by Bastables (edited 01-23-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: Enemy infantry move out from in front of the tank as well...at least I haven't been able to kill anyone by an overrun attack. You should definitely be able to, its realistic and tactically sound. Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. Both not modeled - don't know the answer, but if you do a search you will at least find the answer for the no run overs. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 23, 2001 Share Posted January 23, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: Enemy infantry move out from in front of the tank as well...at least I haven't been able to kill anyone by an overrun attack. You should definitely be able to, its realistic and tactically sound. It wasn't so tactically sound after 1942 when the infantry began getting good AT weapons to defend themselves with. Even before that, getting a grenade in the treads or a cocktail on the rear deck could be a major hassle. Also, larger tanks should be able to demolish small buildings by running into them. Sure. Almost any armoured vehicles could do that. Problem is, you run a serious risk of immobilising your vehicle in the process. Especially if the building in question has a basement. Oops! Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 01-23-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Here's my secret. If I want to scout enemy positions on a bocage map, I can place a full squad right up against the bocage, use the split squad command, and have the half squad pop out on the other side of the bocage so he can quickly scout ahead without the need to actually pass through the bocage the original squad was hiding behind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by ASL Veteran: Here's my secret. If I want to scout enemy positions on a bocage map, I can place a full squad right up against the bocage, use the split squad command, and have the half squad pop out on the other side of the bocage so he can quickly scout ahead without the need to actually pass through the bocage the original squad was hiding behind! Ack! Sounds like a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Here is a useful technique to conserve your indirect fire ammo. Once a battery opens fire, use small adjustments in the point of aim even when you do not need them, to delay the next set of rounds. The result is a smaller-sized fire mission, since the battery is firing for only part of the turn. Start of the following turn, cancel the target (for a small fire mission) or move the target location again (for continual, 1/2-3/4 rate of fire harassment). Sometimes you want to fire the ammo rapidly to do maximum damage, but often you want to suppress the enemy for longer. This technique stretches out the ammo usage, without the long delay involved in cancelling the mission entirely and starting over from scratch. It can also give the target the unsettling sense that a cat is toying with a mouse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tontoman Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Wouldn't tank NOT want to get this close to troops unless they were moving at speed or had infantry support. An unsupported tank moving slowly is begging to be crawled on and having a machine gun emptied into one of its vision slits. Sure there is a bunch of other nasty things that could be done (grenade in the exhaust pipe?) even with troops that didn't have AT weapons. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by Tontoman: Wouldn't tank NOT want to get this close to troops unless they were moving at speed or had infantry support. An unsupported tank moving slowly is begging to be crawled on and having a machine gun emptied into one of its vision slits. Sure there is a bunch of other nasty things that could be done (grenade in the exhaust pipe?) even with troops that didn't have AT weapons. T. Check out German Infantry Handbook by Buchner. German troops were taught anti-tank procedures even before the Panzerfaust was invented - grenade bundles, logs in the tracks, mud over the vision slits, creating smoke by setting terrain on fire, setting gasoline-soaked rags alight and using them as weapons, firing flare guns at optics - you name it, these are all things Buchner says that German troops were trained to do as makeshift tank defence. Watch "Stalingrad" and pay attention - 5 cm anti tank gun stiffening dug in infantry that stays in their holes and uses magnetic mines. The point is not that they actually did any of this, but that it was part of their training. Also part of their training was sitting in a foxhole while a tank ran over their hole. German troops were thus not necessarily panic stricken when enemy armour appeared. Buchner himself says that three times he personally put hand grenades down the cannon barrel of a T-34 tank. Sounds like something out of Sergeant Rock, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Seems to me that most German infantry were well prepared to deal with enemy armour - especially by 1944 when so many special purpose AT weapons were in abundance. [This message has been edited by Michael Dorosh (edited 01-24-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts