Kanonier Reichmann Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 I'm wondering if anyone else has thought it odd that the efficiency of HQ units in providing their combat bonuses doesn't appear to be reduced despite their own casualties. Unless I've missed it in the manual, it appears HQ's can continue to lead squads under their control just as well when down to 1 man or at full strength. Obviously no changes will be made to CM1 now but I thought it worth raising before CM2 is set in stone to see if others thought a deterioration in leadership efficiency should be modelled as casualties to the HQ are taken. Thoughts anyone? Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm wondering if anyone else has thought it odd that the efficiency of HQ units in providing their combat bonuses doesn't appear to be reduced despite their own casualties.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Unless I'm mistaken, Command bonuses are tied to individual members of the HQ, so the loss of a man means a loss of a command bonus. That said, I agree with you that when HQs take casualties there should be some effect to command aside from the loss in bonuses. Perhaps a longer delay or shorter command radius. For all I know that feature could already be in the game, but haven't noticed it in the heat of battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Kingfish, I'm not positive, but I don't think the command bonuses are attached to individual HQ members. I'm relatively certain that the command bunus relates to the officer (ranking officer in the case of a BN HQ) in the HQ unit and as long as there is one person left, it is assumed to be that officer. But as I said, I could be wrong, and if so, I've learned something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 I could have sworn I seen HQs drop a command bonus when a man gets hit, but I'm not 100% sure of this. I'm at work and unable to test this out, can someone be so kind as to run a little test to confirm this. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted April 24, 2001 Author Share Posted April 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: I could have sworn I seen HQs drop a command bonus when a man gets hit, but I'm not 100% sure of this. I'm at work and unable to test this out, can someone be so kind as to run a little test to confirm this. Many thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From my experience it doesn't make one scrap of difference who or how many men are incapacitated within the HQ unit, provided at least 1 man is still standing you get the full bonuses. At least that's certainly been ny observations of the game at least. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 Then I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 24, 2001 Share Posted April 24, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jgdpzr: Kingfish, I'm not positive, but I don't think the command bonuses are attached to individual HQ members. I'm relatively certain that the command bunus relates to the officer (ranking officer in the case of a BN HQ) in the HQ unit and as long as there is one person left, it is assumed to be that officer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm almost positive this is correct. [ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 I just ran a little test to satisfy my curiosity, and it turns out I was wrong. Command bonuses are not tied to individual members of a HQ. You learn something new everyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Thanks for the info kingfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 An interesting observation. How many times have you pounded on an unit that is not fully identified, and when it doesn't break think, "hmm, must be an HQ. Gotta get 'em all to make it innefective."? Maybe degrading the bonus due to casualties is a good idea. I know that weapon loss in squads is tracked, so it seems possible. I think that green or conscript HQ attributes should only be revealed after contact. Who knows ahead of time how good an officer will be in battle? Also, maybe having some HQ's having a negative effect would be fun. You would still use them to get the time bonus for being in command, and try to find them jobs where they couldn't foul things up too much. "That Lt. Smith is noisier than a bull in a china shop. Have him stay back and spot for the mortars". Maybe the bonus would go up if the intrepid Lt. Smith was hit. "Too bad about Smith, but Sgt. Schmuck is doing a great job since Smith bought it." Better leave it alone. Would fragging become a gamey tactic? [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: BloodyBucket ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted April 25, 2001 Author Share Posted April 25, 2001 Just a self serving bump to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Alkema Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 I admit that I haven't thought about this an awful lot, but off the top of my head it would seem to me that casualties should have some effect on an HQ's abilities. Even if you assume that it isn't the officer that gets greased and it's only a runner, say, then shouldn't the command radius contract? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 Yeah and their too damn hard to kill too!!! Now I know Officers are a tough bunch but come on, this is a bit much. I don't notice that the American HQ's are that tough but the German ones sure seem to be overly tough to kill or damage. I also noticed that American infanty don't seem to be able to destroy German tanks very well but boy the German infantry sure can knock out American tanks easy as all get out. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcGuire Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BloodyBucket: Also, maybe having some HQ's having a negative effect would be fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Excellent idea. There is certainly plenty of historic precedent. After watching my dad's 23 year enlisted career in the Navy, I further submit that most officers should carry a negative score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 I wouldn't go that far. I do think that one of the big challenges to any commander is dealing with the less than ideal subordinate commanders he has. I have heard of units having two sets of leaders, one for frontline duty and another for garrison. Seems to just happen without any formal guidance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted April 26, 2001 Share Posted April 26, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lcm1947: I also noticed that American infanty don't seem to be able to destroy German tanks very well but boy the German infantry sure can knock out American tanks easy as all get out. :mad:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There's a good historical reason for this: panzerfausts. As has been noted many times on this board, the Germans had a very effective "once-only" rocket-launcher-on-a-stick called a panzerfaust that could kill Allied tanks at short range--though the ranges grew longer, up to 100m IIRC, as the war wore on. Allies had rifle grenades, but they we're nearly as effective. So don't get your Allied tanks too close to Axis infantry, unless they're crews or something. The panzerfausts, if any, are actually listed as weapons when you view a unit's screen. Not all units are carrying 'fausts, but those that are can kill you quick. They're not to accurate at range though, so distance and suppression are your best protections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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