WineCape's Wine Tourney II

[MrSpkr]

Announcement for all:

Due to circumstances beyond my control (i.e., the prigs at bigfoot.com being so utterly incompetent that they appear to believe that a full 99.9857% of all servers used in the English speaking world are carriers for spam and must be blocked), I can no longer rely upon the address, mrspkr@bigfoot.com, to get turns or other emails. They are either getting bounced back to people, or they are being delayed several days. Therefore, please use the following address until further notice:

stephen.hines@att.net . If you have sent me a turn in the last four or five days and gotten no response, please resend to the new address. I do have turns in my mailbox from Tincan and Tankbuster.

Thank you.

A note to Sledge59:

Sledge, you are complaining that we have reached an impasse in negotiations. Last I checked (about five minutes ago), you had not tried to email me since my email response to your proposal. I am all for negotiations -- but no meaningful ones have occurred here. You gave your opening position in an email to me. I gave mine in a return email. The one thing we agreed on initially was that you would take the Axis and I would take the Allies. That was agreeable with me despite weaknesses in the Allied infantry force pool, because I believed wise unit purchasing could offset the deficiency. We disagreed as to the extent of armor and the board. Then, you publicly demanded an explanation for my position by posting to this board without any apparent attempt to contact me by email for negotiations; appalled at your lack of manners and civility, I stonewalled, and here we are. I have no desire for Treeburst to pick my forces, nor do I believe I am any more experienced at picking forces than you or anyone else, Sledge; I do, however, desire to conduct the give and take of negotiations -- that, to me, is an important part of this tournament. I have done so successfully with every other opponent in this match, so I fail to understand why you appear to be unwilling to do so. Perhaps you have tried and I simply have not gotten your messages due to the problems with bigfoot.com. In any event, why don't you try emailing a counter-proposal that gives a little bit and let's see where we can find some common ground instead of whining on the public message board and begging Treeburst or anyone else to solve a problem that simply is not ripe and is most likely resolvable given some effort on your behalf.

In any event, I reject your proposal to have Treeburst or any one else choose our forces. Part of the challenge to this tournament is picking a force mix that you can deploy well -- having someone else choose forces eliminates that portion of the challenge. If you don't feel comfortable with compromising a bit on force delineations or other factors, and if you are so new that my picking my own forces places you at an inherent disadvantage, perhaps you should consider dropping the tournament.

As to the picks -- first of all, you are the one who instantly presumed that because I requested dry weather, I wanted to set everything on fire. I never said anything about it; however, if you want to make that assumption, I will let you. I requested a small map because a large map is too bloody big for a 1500 point battle - like commuting to work by driving your own school bus with no one else aboard. It's too much space and takes too much time to get to the beating. But you wouldn't know any of that because you never bothered to ask privately -- instead, you made an insane demand that I "explain myself" on a public message board. I don't recall anyone saying I had to explain the reasons behind my decision to you or anyone else. If you don't like the fact that I do not care to "explain" my tactics and reasoning to you, particularly in a public forum (and especially given the fact I am involved in two tournaments at the moment) tough. Deal with it. I am not going to divulge my preferences or reasoning here.

Finally, keep in mind this is a game. It is not realistic, and to suggest it is is an insult to the men and women who gave their lives in the war. You play this game in the comfort of your home with the air conditioning on. If you are thirsty, you get up and walk to the kitchen and grab an ice cold drink from the refridgerator. If you are hungry, you pause between turns and plod into the kitchen for a sandwich or snack. If you feel nature's call, you go to an enclosed bathroom with a flushable porcelain toilet and as much soft toilet paper as you require. If you want fresh air, you can walk out on your front porch or even around the block, in broad daylight. If the enemy is about to overrun your position, you can take the luxury of an hour or two to decide what to do in the next sixty seconds. Realistic? Hah.

If you want realism, go to your backyard. Get a shovel and break the handle in half. Now, dig a two foot wide by three foot deep hole. Fill it with about four to six inches of water. Get in the hole. Do not venture out of the hole or expose more than your head during daylight. No smoking at night. All meals must be eaten cold in the hole. You must hold any toilet calls until dark, at which point you can run over to another hole in the yard and take care of business. Then, just for fun, have the neighbors occasionally randomly fire hunting rifles at your backyard.

Even then, you still won't have experienced any more than a bare taste of "realism."

A note to KiwiJoe:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>KiwiJoe said:

These games are suppose to be STRICT CAL rules... ie no force mixing. Naughty!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, your comment is not quite accurate. The standard CAL rules have been modified for this tournament to allow the Allied player in a 1500 point match such as this to mix up to one company of Allied airborne forces with any ONE other type of allied force -- a historical and imminently fair modification that I often use (right, mike8g? ).

MrSpkr

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Treeburst155]

For realistic and fair meeting engagements (is there really such a thing?) I'd want to play Panther 76 CAL rules with one company of Allied airborne allowed with any other single force type. Throw in a little random weather and you're good to go.

Treeburst155 out.

[Sledge59]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrSpkr:

Waah waah waah! Sledge is mean and not submissive and I hate him cuz he knows my deep dark secret that I was so sure nobody could see and he could care less if I call him names and why oh why is he picking on me? *Blubber sniff Blubber sniff*

MrSpkr

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*Hands MrSpkr a clean tissue for his tears. * Settle down now neighbor. Looks like you could use a little wine for that whine. Hit a little too close to home? Lets see if we can make it all better shall we?

True confessions of a heavy-handed hammer:

- This IS a game. We ARE negotiating.

- I am cursed with an uncontrollable impulse to break the kneecaps of anyone caught gloating over the misfortune that they tricked someone else into.

- I love to pick on Texans. (Except Texas Toast… a true ass-kicker)

- The assumption here is that if you can dish it out you really should be able to take it. *Wink-wink nudge-nudge*

- I have spent the last two weeks without even one cigarette after over two decades of nicotine addiction. SOMEBODY has to pay for this!

- Ya got just one thing right in that last post… Combat Mission is a game. To me it does not mock those who have made sacrifices in war, but honors them by reminding the player of history via simulation. It has on several occasions made me sit back and reflect upon what it took to deal with a given situation, and has kindled an appreciation for those whose lives have shaped our world. Still it is a game that offers the thrill of a simulation without the suffering of the real thing. Does this mean that we should desecrate it?

- What would you really rather have, a worthy opponent who knows exactly how to get into your head or a submissive second-hander to lick your feet? Don’t answer that!

THE STAR CHAMBER COURT IS NOW IN SESSION

Your hysterical judge Sledge presiding.

Sledge: “Stand up and hear yer sentence!”

MrSpkr: “But I haven’t even entered a plea or had a trial or…”

Sledge: “Shut yer trap!”

MrSpkr shuts his trap.

Sledge: “You have been found guilty of taking yerself too dang seriously.”

MrSpkr: “but what about due process?”

Sledge: “Due process is far too gamey for this court. You are hereby sentenced to hang by the neck until you cheer up!”

[MrSpkr]

Oh my gosh. Sledge57.894765096½ actually GREW a pair.

At least in public.

Now let's see if he can follow up properly.

[WineCape]

Now Gentleman Sledge + Spkr,

Good to see you two making (kissing?) up ; Good luck with your battle. A kind request: Can we get some AAR's from you two, hehe?

Remember, the only thing SERIOUS about wine is that there is nothing in your glass! Hence, both make sure that your Combat Mission CD's arein your harddrives before you tangle with one another!

Kind regards,

Charl Theron

[Treeburst155]

This just in from the front! Mike8g has beaten Sledge 86-14. Congratulations Mike8g!! Here's the updated standings. It's shaping up to be a good race.

tank buster...205...4...51.3

Mike8g...179...3...59.7

Fangorn...127...2...63.5

chuckle...122...3...40.7

Tincan...113...3...37.7

Mr Spkr...78...1...78.0

StuG III...26...1...26.0

Sledge...14...1...14.0

[Treeburst155]

Stug III scores Major Victory over Tincan in his first tourney win! The final score was 56-20. Congratulations, Stug III!! Updated standings below:

tank buster...205...4...51.3

Mike8g...179...3...59.7

Tincan...133...4...33.3

Fangorn...127...2....3.5

chuckle...122...3...40.7

StuG III...82...2...41.0

Mr Spkr....78...1...78.0

Sledge...14...1....4.0

Here I've sorted by average score per game, just for fun:

Mr Spkr...78...1...78.0

Fangorn...127...2...63.5

Mike8g...179...3...59.7

tank buster...205...4...51.3

StuG III...82...2...41.0

chuckle...122...3...40.7

Tincan...133...4...33.3

Sledge...14...1...14.0

[Sledge59]

AFTER ACTION REPORT (Mike8g v Sledge)

This game was over from the start. I could see 2 tanks in the open on turn 1 and thought: “He has made some kind of huge mistake here… go for it!” As it turned out the mistake was all mine. His laser guided AT gun from hell just couldn’t miss. One shot bounced off and the next two killed a StuGIII apiece. Now the only thing that could take out his armor was a pair of 50mm guns. One of these was covering a flank attack that never came. The other managed to kill a halftrack before a mortar bombardment routed the crew.

At this point began the fighting retreat. The green German rifle squads held up very well considering the combined arms effect that was brought to bear against them. The Poles kept marching forward through howitzer and mortar fire like men possessed while buildings, bullets and shells pelted the hapless Axis force. Nearly 2/3 of the German force escaped uninjured that day. The commander chose to suffer the wrath of high command himself rather than see his troops pay for his blunder with their lives.

You played an excellent game Marcus!

These games are at various stages:

Tank Buster (turn 24 of 27)

Tincan (turn 23 of 28)

StugIII (turn 20 of 27)

Fangorn (turn 10 of 28)

Chuckle (waiting for turn 1 return file)

Sent a counter-counter-counter offer to MrSpkr this morning for a duel in a saloon on the New Mexico/ Texas border. We shall see if his thumb wrestling skills are worthy of the trip!

[Treeburst155]

Ah, a successful withdrawal. Good move Sledge59. Minimize his victory. So what was the final score so I can update the stats?

[mike8g]

Ahemm, *cough* Look four posts upwards

*hint* 14-86

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: mike8g ]

[Treeburst155]

Ooops!!

I guess Sledge59's withdrawal didn't do him a whole lot of good then. Probably because he didn't cause many enemy casualties to offset the 1/3 of his force that he lost.

Thanks, Mike8g, for filling me in here. It might have been days before I figured out I already had the score recorded.

On the weekends these little tourneys keep me quite busy.

[StugIII]

Well it's time for another installment of Boost My Enemy's Ego. Just a quick update on my current situations.

Tankbuster: Game over. I got my bootocks handed to me. The remainder of my cowardly Sturmgruppen are rumored to be enjoying the luxuries of allied captivity.

Tincan: Game over. A major allied victory. Could have been even better if it wasn't for that medling BER. Most curious was the entire company of germany's finest that never engaged in the battle. The stunned company commander was heard saying "Wir durften nicht schiessen". Loosely translated as "huh, the battle's over?" The allies are crediting "Superior Electronic Countermeasures" for the german confussion.

Sledge59: "A Funny Thing Happened On My Way To The War." This is the tenative title to a lucky bazooka team member's autobiography. This team was at the point of a flank advance when they spotted a menacing StuGIII at max. effective range +10 yards. This bazooka man panicked and turned to run only to trip over his other team member causing the bazooka to fire into the air in a suspicious arc. The errent shell traveled the distance and managed to penetrate the Top of the heroic (aren't they all) StuGIII. Forces nearby, believing they were under attack by some new invisible allied aircraft (not developed for another 40 years), panicked, and fell to the ground in terror where Sledge's armor turned them into some type of human cordaroy road. The German commander has asked for an early cease fire fearing continued attacks from invisible aircraft.

Marcus: What runs backwards faster than a Frenchman in 1940? My American regulars vs. Marcus. This will be a total rout. The Amis were winning this one early in the game, but when the first (and only) Hetzer showed up, the rout was on. An american Captain turned to his L.T. and screamed " A HETZER IN A SHORT 75 GAME?" No sooner had he finished his loud protest when a german motorcycle, carrying a flag of truce, showed up. The Motorrader handed the Capt. a small piece of paper containing just 5 words "Panther 76. Reread the setup." Not waiting for any type of reply, the driver kicked his cycle into action and motored back to his lines. The L.T. shrieked "They've got 76's" as he ran to the nearest treeline, never to be seen again. Many of his men followed and received the same fate.

Chuckles:In a city built on terrain that would rival San Francisco the following exchange is taking place:

Captain: " Easy 6 to Able 6 over."

Corporal: " Uhh Sir?"

Cpt: " Not now corporal!"

Cpl: " Sir this is Impor..."

Cpt: " Not as important as this. Easy 6 to..."

Cpl: " Sir, you don't haaave an Able 6 anymore."

Cpt: " No armor!!! Ohhhh Sh!+!!"

This one is not going well either.

Fangorn: A major fight for control of the main VL at the south end of the map. Piles of wrecked HT's with the carcasses of burning Pumas just 100m away. Suddenly to the north a lone American armored car ventures into no man's land. German soldiers, who seconds before were enjoying a quiet meal of brot, jam, wurst and, apfelwine, look at each other in bewilderment. "What in the devil's name...". A salvo rings out from a distant hilltop as the Armored car comes to a screeching halt. The escape hatch of the car opens and the crew scurrys back to the american lines. "Can you pass the butter, bitte?"

MrSpkr: From the thoughts of MrSpkr: "Man is this boring. This StuGIII guy has thrown wave after wave of poor Polish troops at my Ubersoldaten. I don't even know why he entered this tourney. I'm entrenched in these buildings, set fire to the rest and am now entering my orders while wearing a blindfold and typing with my toes. Oh how I can almost taste that South African wine nowwwwhooolyyy crap!!! How did that Polish flag get on top of the Main VL! What, what turn is it? BER? Oh crap! The BER!!!

No matter what the outcome and where I finish in this tourney I'd just like to say it's been a pleasure playing against all of you and thank you for the lessons you've taught me. God I Love This Game!!

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by StugIII:

MrSpkr: From the thoughts of MrSpkr: "Man is this boring. This StuGIII guy has thrown wave after wave of poor Polish troops at my Ubersoldaten. I don't even know why he entered this tourney. I'm entrenched in these buildings, set fire to the rest and am now entering my orders while wearing a blindfold and typing with my toes. Oh how I can almost taste that South African wine nowwwwhooolyyy crap!!! How did that Polish flag get on top of the Main VL! What, what turn is it? BER? Oh crap! The BER!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously you have given up on the wine and ran down to the store for some cheap beer. Crazy Horse, you say? Well, that explains it.

If you will remember the other two times you tried to rush one of my buildings, you will remember what happened. My guys are still complaining about the amount of Polish blood they had to clean from their uniforms after that one.

[Treeburst155]

The latest news from the front: Fangorn whips Tank Buster, 82-18. Congratulations, Fangorn!! Fangorn has yet to suffer a defeat after three games. His average is way up there. Can he go all the way?! Updated standings below:

tank buster....223...5....44.6

Fangorn.....209...3....69.7

Mike8g.......179...3....59.7

Tincan.....133....4....33.3

chuckle....122....3....40.7

StuG III....82....2....41.0

Mr Spkr.....78....1....78.0

Sledge.......14....1....14.0

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

[MrSpkr]

Kaisers - send me back the file, dang it! I wanna see the score!

AAR to follow upon receiving the bloody file.

By the way, does anyone know what happened to Chuckles? I haven't gotten a file from him in over a week.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ]

[Sledge59]

I haven't heard from Chuckle for a while either.

So how about it MrSpkr... are we going with heavy armor or are we hopelessly deadlocked at pregame?

AARs soon to come for games with Tank Buster and StugIII. Just waiting for the scores.

[Treeburst155]

Sledge and Mr. Spkr,

Why don't you two do a heavy armor fight with moderate trees and modest hills in a rural setting with clear weather. Make the battle 3,000 points and use armor only. Those are fun fights IMO. The trees and hills hamper the Jagdpanthers enough that the Hellcats and Shermans have a fair chance. Wirbelwinds and Ostwinds can give the Hellcats hell. Fast Allied turrets keep the Panthers and Tigers in check.

No negotiations necessary. All armor is legal but only armor is legal. It's fun.

[Sledge59]

I'm game

[mike8g]

Haven't heard anything from Chuckle for about a week now.

Same situation with StugIII and Tincan, waiting for the last turn in both games.

Marcus

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: mike8g ]

[StugIII]

I'll resend all the missing turns. Appearently PBEM helper or outlook didn't send them to you.

[tank buster]

Sledge did you send in the results?

[Sledge59]

AFTER ACTION REPORTS (Scores have been mailed to Treeburst155)

Tank Buster

Initial battlefield analysis indicated that a game of ‘King of the Hill’ would be more decisive than ‘Capture the Flag’ on this large rainy forested rural map with it’s highest ground roughly in the center and the sole road running directly over the hill. A simple ‘fustest with the mostest’ thrust element consisted of a scrappy Stuart (our main battle tank), 2 HMCs, 2 Greyhounds, 2 rifle platoons, 1 HMG, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree. These green troops and vehicles were sent up that hill with orders to take it. FO’s targeted likely avenues of enemy advance. As the AFVs slipped into cover at the top of the hill one of the greyhounds caught a 251/1 with a gun in tow heading off road for high ground and knocked it out. Two more gun toting halftracks were caught like deer in the headlights on the road. The next turns saw all of these destroyed and a sizable amount of infantry pelted by 180 rounds of 81mm mortar fire. Just one Greyhound was lost in this exchange. It was going to be a good day for the allies.

Rather than rush into a hand-to-hand confrontation with a partially suppressed foe, the US force set up a hasty defense on the hill and turned all attention to the flags. A rifle company that did not participate in the hill assault grabbed the two smaller flags with no resistance. Every scrap of available firepower was turned upon a portion of a Sturmkompanie found partially setup around the main VL. At least one German platoon was ground into the dirt when the Americans took that flag. All subsequent attempts at retaking this VL were turned away. Another halftrack and what appeared to be a Lynx were hunted down and destroyed.

Tank Buster attempted a crafty late battle strike at our rear lines with two rifle platoons. This element managed to knock out an HMC that had bogged and become immobilized near a patch of woods. These men too were blocked by what had become a hub and spoke defense of the VLs from Mapcenter Hill.

This battle had intense fighting for 24 of 27 turns. What a thrill ride!

StugIII

This battle occurred on another interesting large map, nearly flat and almost open on the northern half. All the VLs were in the southern half in clearings between the patchy forests. The Allied plan here was to use concealment and recon to gain a defensive stance while locating a weak spot for an armored thrust. It worked like a charm. There was NO movement on the northern half of the map. A feint/probe in the extreme south resulted in a successful ‘hail Mary’ shot from a zook team aiming at a StuGIII. Lady Luck had smiled again.

At this point an armored force consisting of a Chaffee, a Stuart, a Greyhound, and an HMC shot across form the north to fan out behind German lines. No guns were encountered along the way. Three turns later the two remaining StuGIII’s were no more. By this time the German infantry had occupied the VLs only to be met by an M7 and a steady rain of artillery. All the Allied armor focused upon driving back the Axis infantry. When 5 American rifle platoons walked up to the flags, hardly a shot was fired in protest.

StugIII had some sour luck on this one. We are planning to play another game sometime soon.

[Treeburst155]

Sorry I haven't been around, but I was called out of town unavoidably. Here's what has happened since:

MrSpkr over StuGIII 44-39

Sledge over StuGIII 84-16

Mike8g over StuGIII 71-29

Mike8g over Tincan 81-19

Congratulations to all the winners and to StuGIII for getting a draw!!

Here's the updated standings:

Mike8g......331...5...66.2

tank buster..245...6...40.8

Fangorn....209...3...69.7

Sledge.....176...3...58.7

StuG III....166...5...33.2

Tincan.....152...5...30.4

chuckle...122...3...40.7

Mr Spkr...122...2...61.0

Sorted by average:

Fangorn...209...3...69.7

Mike8g.....331...5...66.2

Mr Spkr....122...2...61.0

Sledge.....176...3...58.7

tank buster..245...6...40.8

chuckle....122...3...40.7

StuG III...166...5...33.2

Tincan.....152...5...30.4

It looks like Mike8g might be the one to beat now. He's maintaining an excellent average with only two games left to complete.

[chuckle]

Hi Guys, my apologies for being awol... i am currently away from home with my laptop - you'll be glad to know i did have CM installed and all your email addys etc installed on "the little bastard" - which then duly died on my first day away. I am going to be away for another two weeks or so during which time it is unlikely i'll be online (but you never know, it's possible i'll be able to get "the little bastard" fixed). I'll be sure to send turns the moment im back online.

-ben.

[MrSpkr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Treeburst155:

Sledge and Mr. Spkr,

Why don't you two do a heavy armor fight with moderate trees and modest hills in a rural setting with clear weather. Make the battle 3,000 points and use armor only. Those are fun fights IMO. The trees and hills hamper the Jagdpanthers enough that the Hellcats and Shermans have a fair chance. Wirbelwinds and Ostwinds can give the Hellcats hell. Fast Allied turrets keep the Panthers and Tigers in check.

No negotiations necessary. All armor is legal but only armor is legal. It's fun.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Axis heavy tanks have a definite advantage (as noted by your owbn statement above that the terrain effects would give the Allies a fair chance).

If you want it to be perfectly equal, how about a small to medium map, with Heer rifle squads (44 version) versus US rifle squads (44 version), any support weapons, no vehicles, no armor, 81mm artillery maximum, village terrain, low hills, low trees? The US squads are slightly stronger at under 40 yards, but it evens out at longer ranges (starting at 100m) where the MG42 really shines.

I'll take Allies, you take Axis (as we originally agreed).

The beauty of this type of arrangement is that it forces combat, both sides are qualitatively equal, and it is much more challenging than driving around watching ubertanks go at each other (and watching allied tanks go <boom>.

MrSpkr