CombinedArms Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 I think this thread in particular might benefit by breaking it down a bit. Instead of try to answer this question for all branches and armies, and for the whole war, I'm going to mention some specific cases / examples: 1. U. S. Maj. Gen. Elwood (Pete) Quesada--Comanded the IX Tactical Air Force that worked with the US First Army and who, starting in N. Africa, worked out from stratch the tactics by which the Jabos & medium bombers supported US ground troops which created a new state of the art. Pioneered new uses of radar for command and control, as well as tank-to-air communications, etc. 2. Brit, Field Marshal William Slim, brilliant leader of British forces in the Burma campaign. Took a beaten, demoralized command in Burma and, without much support, lead it to a series of dashing victories. Known to the cogniscenti but about 1/10 as well known to the public as Monty. 3, US. Maj. Gen Walter Robertson--his brilliant handling of his 2nd Div. and also elements of the 99th Div that came under wide ranging, hands-on command probably saved the Allied north shoulder--including the Elsenborn Ridge--during the Battle of the Bulge. This may have been the key to the entire battle, blunting what was intended to be the Axis's main drive to the Meuse. 4. French Gen. Jacque Phillipe LeClerc--an amazing story. After fleeing France following the 1940 defeat, he helped hold various French colonies in Africa for de Gaulle. Finding himself Chad 's military commandant, he fought his way up to North Africa (>1500 miles through African desert!) with a small colonial force, defeating larger forces all along the way, and linking up with Monty in Tripoli in early '43. He formed the French 2nd Armored Div., fought his way to Paris, helped capture it (thanks, Ike!) and later, serving in the 6th Army Group, rolled his tanks into Strasbourg. Just lost out in the race to the Berchtesgaden! All in all, an amazing record--from Chad to the Berchtesgaden in twenty-five easy steps. I'd be particularly interested in hearing other candidates for this honor, including under-discussed or under-appreciated Canadians, Poles, Czechs, Russians, Finns, and Germans, etc.--along with further Brits, Yanks and Frenchmen like those mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Wrt a western audience one can't help but wonder if the entire Soviet Army General Staff has been underrated ... with the exception of General Winter and General H.Wave Okay, it's a jib. My apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumvir Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 No one remembers Uncle Bill because he got things done quickly, efficiently, and above all, quietly. No Patton/Monty/Rommel histrionics, just plain old soldiering in the best Indian Army tradition. Slim was in battle continuously from 1942 to 1945, longer than _any_ other general, against a more fanatic foe than any halfwitted Hitler Youth, without the same ridiculously overwhelming numbers or materiel that turned places like Tarawa or Peleliu into foregone conclusions. Bill Slim, most underrated? By FAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 I would say Slim too. I think he's about 1/100th as well known as Monty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CombinedArms: French Gen. Jacque Phillipe LeClerc--an amazing story. After fleeing France following the 1940 defeat, he helped hold various French colonies in Africa for de Gaulle. Finding himself Chad 's military commandant, he fought his way up to North Africa (>1500 miles through African desert!) with a small colonial force, defeating larger forces all along the way, and linking up with Monty in Tripoli in early '43. He formed the French 2nd Armored Div., fought his way to Paris, helped capture it (thanks, Ike!) and later, serving in the 6th Army Group, rolled his tanks into Strasbourg. Just lost out in the race to the Berchtesgaden! All in all, an amazing record--from Chad to the Berchtesgaden in twenty-five easy steps.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A record that included allowing untold extra thousands of Germans to escape the Falaise trap through his own selfish myopia, deliberately snarling the advance of 5th Armored Division before Argentan by completely disobeying march routes, and leaving the surrounded Poles to die in the Coudehard Hills (Maczuga) as even more Germans escaped, in order to preserve his victory parade into Paris. There is more than one school of thought on this gentleman and "underrated" might not be entirely accurate, depending on who is doing the rating.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_2 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 My vote is for Slim too......Learn't a lot about him from my grandfather to admire him as much he did. Or Brigadier Mike Calvert DSO was Wingate's right-hand man. God rest his soul !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 What about General Wavell? What he achieved in the Western Desert with bugger all against a much larger force (by a factor of about 5) must surely qualify him for a mention. And then he gets shafted by Winston just because he couldn't keep on delivering those "against all odds" victories indefinitely. A real sleeper IMHO. Regards Jim R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_2 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 I've already put Wavell as my best commander of WW2 on the other topic...Slim never seems to get a mention and he achieved more than Wavell in relative terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Hick Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Slim seems even more underated when taking into account Monty's bad calls and the fact that many feel he was way overrated (don't politics suck!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 PENG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: What about General Wavell? What he achieved in the Western Desert with bugger all against a much larger force (by a factor of about 5) must surely qualify him for a mention. And then he gets shafted by Winston just because he couldn't keep on delivering those "against all odds" victories indefinitely. A real sleeper IMHO. Regards Jim R.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I tend to think that Gen. O'Connor helped out too in routing the Italians, being as he was the direct army commander instead of theater commander (Wavell). But with O'Connor captured in Apr '41 during Rommel's first offensive, O'Connor tends to slip through the cracks in historical review, even though O'Connor was liberated and rejoined to serve in corps command in NW Europe in '44. Often, when looking at British commanders in the North African campaigns, the theater commander often overlapped into the army commander's role. Sometimes Wavell had to apply himself directly---sometimes, so did Auchinleck, another "dark horse" who seems to get little notice. And when talking about Monty in North Africa & Sicily, how much of a role did the theater commander Alexander play in helping out Monty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blenheim Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 I don't know if the navy is included, but I cast my vote for the British admiral in the Mediterranian, Mr. Damm-I-forgot-his-name (that reinforces my point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_2 Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: Well, I tend to think that Gen. O'Connor helped out too in routing the Italians, being as he was the direct army commander instead of theater commander (Wavell). But with O'Connor captured in Apr '41 during Rommel's first offensive, O'Connor tends to slip through the cracks in historical review, even though O'Connor was liberated and rejoined to serve in corps command in NW Europe in '44. Often, when looking at British commanders in the North African campaigns, the theater commander often overlapped into the army commander's role. Sometimes Wavell had to apply himself directly---sometimes, so did Auchinleck, another "dark horse" who seems to get little notice. And when talking about Monty in North Africa & Sicily, how much of a role did the theater commander Alexander play in helping out Monty?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Even Alexander was stepped on over by Monty because Monty was Alan Brooke's mate and Brooke had Churchill's ear....That's a simple version of it but I'm tired !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Johnson-- Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 At least O'Conner was trying to lead from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 So Alexander was basically a figurehead as a theater commander in the Med? Dunno about that for now. BTW, I do concur with others in that Slim seems to be very underrated. Insofar, there's been precious little evidence to show that if put into Slim's operational situations on a regular basis, that Monty could have done just as well as Slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted July 3, 2001 Share Posted July 3, 2001 I once made an oath to myself neve to enter "the best something" threads. So, consider my post off-topic. > Wrt a western audience one can't help but > wonder if the entire Soviet Army General > Staff has been underrated ... It's very easy to correct. Add "The [comparison term] american or german [subject] of WWII". If that looks similar to talking about napoleonic wars without ever mentioning any french names, well... face it, it just looks that way. > with the exception of General Winter and > General H.Wave You sadly forgot about General Mud. [ 07-02-2001: Message edited by: Skipper ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted July 3, 2001 Author Share Posted July 3, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blenheim: I don't know if the navy is included, but I cast my vote for the British admiral in the Mediterranian, Mr. Damm-I-forgot-his-name (that reinforces my point).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Do you mean Cunningham? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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