Infantry vs. all arms

[Redwolf]

The artillery spotter was placed too obvious. My right column received fire at a time and place that could only be directed from that patch of woods, so I took my chances. Unformtunately, the spotter escaped, but at least he couldn't fire while I advanced to the road. Later other infantry came within range of my support and took losses. I now sit tight in the foxholes and the craters created by the Hummel shots.

I couldn't prevent the Americans from forming a combat team of two tanks and a platoon of infantry around it, which is now operating towards the central street crossing, closely covered by artillery which pounds all cover (wood only, so effectivly airburst arty).

I need a slow approach here to avoid losses (I cannot afford high losses, the objective is not worth it). But since all the streets are near infantry cover, the Americans will sooner or later have to make a decision whether to move the tanks into the open fields. Where they are much safer once the artillery is gone and they would have a much better field of fire, including my base line with valuable support units. But on the other hand the ground conditions are as hostile towards the Shermans as my Panzerfausts are, so we'll see.

Another interesting point in terrain is the Church behind the ridge. It is occupied by MGs, which I have to assume are .50cals (from the supression they cause...). I cannot fire on this building from my base line, and even worse, it has excellent field of fire in front of it, which I cannot cross easily [not exploiting the CMBO MG model weakness and charging it]. The covered area is just wide enough that every spot is within the range that a .50cal can knock out a thin vehicle from.

[JasonC]

Those Hummels are deadly, and the American infantry has to be very careful about exposing itself anywhere with long lanes of fire, until they are accounted for. The Shermans, 50 cals, zooks, and artillery can all destroy them, but even a few well placed shots from them can tilt the remaining infantry odds very strongly in the Germans favor.

[Jarmo]

A bunch of infantry has been seen moving forward over the road in to the rightmost woods. They are now occupying the flag over there too. I've sent a tank to intercept them so they can't move to my right rear.

The two tanks at the crossroads came under schreck fire from the woods at right, some 125m away. I'll see if I can withdraw the tanks intact, might lose one.

At left Wolf seems to have given up the attack, or then he's just circling further left.

Waiting for the next turn..

[Jarmo]

I lost one of the Shermans at the crossroads. The other one has a big bushfire between him and the schrecks.

On my right.

Wolf seems to be pulling back apart from a scout or two that are still advancing. I'm artying the movement areas.

Crossroads.

He's attacking the with a platoon. I might need to pull back.

Middle.

He was indeed circling further left, but looks like it's a scouting mission only. I'm gunning down the runners with MG fire from church.

The good news for me is, he rushed a platoon rightwards past the previously detected minefield by the road. Out of sight of my known platoon further back, but straight into an ambush by my other platoon. Looks like he just lost a platoon.

[Jarmo]

Not going well for the combined arms.

(well, actually both sides are comined arms)

Anyway.

Wolf seems to have left my left side unbothered.

I lost also the second tank at the crossroads, this time to a close assaulting faust team. I halted the advance there with artillery, but that can't last..

On my left, Reddie attacked the hill with about a company after first smoking it. I lost the 105 Sherman to fausts. Another sherman in overwatch further left was unable to help thanks to the smoke. The rest I have in the hill will probably be gone in a few turns.

[Redwolf]

Well, things are not going better for me

There can be few doubt that I can take most flags but maybe the one in the church outside LOS of useful positions. But the amount of losses I take are best expressed by saying that I play with warning labels off, otherwise I couldn't see anything. This is not healthy, since there are very few flags to take on this map (real world equivalent: this objective is not worth weakening the attacking battalion this much).

I guess both of us will loose in real-life terms, Jarmo for not holding the ground, me for not keeping my forces intact for further operations.

This is really a combined arms battle. I take almost no losses from the tanks. But my desire to kill the tanks (I have to otherwise they would mob up my infantry and AFVs) make my movement to predictable. Almost all cover on the map is trees, leading to treebursts.

It is a great relief that I could take out the Sherman 105 HVSS. This beast was very dangerous, not only because of its gun, but also because of its improved suspension, which allowed it to choose ground freely. The remaining identified M3A3s would be very vulnerable when driving around in open ground. Consequently, Jarmo is pushing one of them toward the road crossing again (yes, the one with the wrecks , obviously assuming it has been cleared by artillery fire. He also has some infantry there.

Compared to other battles the tank knockouts have more impact since the crews can't get away. So far noone surrendered in this battle.

[Jarmo]

Wolf was advancing a good deal of infantry through the woods alongside the road to the church. I think he wanted to rush my "lone" sherman. I had a platoon waiting in ambush and the result was a massacre. I estimate about two platoons were wiped out without significant losses of my own.

On my left a 75mm halftrack hammered the church from such a position that I couldn't send a sherman to take it out. A lengthy crossroad travel would have been necessary and I can't afford to lose a sherman through bogging down.

On my right a few teams are running across the open from the hill at southwest corner towards the church area. Scouts probably.

[JasonC]

I'm also doing one of these, but mine isn't nearly as far along yet. Only turn 7 (I'm the Germans). So far, I've seen harassing artillery fire, 4 rounds at a time here and there, nothing else. I'll let the thread know when interesting things start to happen.

[JasonC]

My version of this has progressed to turn 12 or so, and initial recon contacts have been made here and there. It has been a slow begining, with both sides mostly staying out of sight. An American platoon on the north edge is now in a firefight with some of my guys, north of the two objectives in the middle of the map east to west, near the north edge. A newly arrived gun halftrack of mine is helping. A few scattered encounters in the middle and middle-south, near the crossroads and by the southern objective hill, but nothing serious in either place yet. The harassing artillery fire has continued across the whole front, but no full scale barrages yet. About 50 rounds so far.

[Jarmo]

A 75mm halftrack continued pounding the church eventually blowing it up. I sent a bazooka team sneaking in to kill the track, but a previously undetected infantry team (MG?) spotted and wasted him. The halftrack backed up however.

On the road towards the church. I moved two platoons forward to kill the remaining panicked squad and sent one to reinforce my right flank. unfortunately Wolf still had at least a platoon there waiting for me. My men were out of ammo and soon wiped out. I targeted the area with 2x105mm spotters (I had a TRP there) and sent both remaining Shermans to stop further advances there. That's when the 75mm halftrack made a comeback and killed the other sherman with a flankshot, then being killed himself.

Lots of infantry approached from right, after the scouts but didn't make it anywhere before endgame. The scouts I managed to stop.

Then all over, saved by the bell.

We both made good moves and serious mistakes here. A good game where situation keeped changing until the end.

[ 12-09-2001: Message edited by: Jarmo ]</p>

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Good AAR of this interesting battle. Thanks Jarmo, Redwolf & Jason C. for giving us all the low-down.

Mind you, judging by that last screenshot it looks like the game you were playing was the "Land of the Giants" version!

Regards

Jim R.

[JasonC]

My outing in the scenario has also concluded. My Germans won, by turn 23. I attach most of my postmortem sent to the American commander.

My plan for this fight was to lead with my least well-led company on my

left, going for the two small objectives on the hill you eventually

plastered so much with the arty. I noticed that I could get good LOS lines

to much of the hill from way back, and the plan was for the assault guns to

overwatch this company up to the base of the hill. If anybody fired at

them, the assault guns would toast them. Then the infantry would go in,

working from the left edge toward the center crossroads. The company heavy

weapons trailed, and were supposed to occupy the hill area. In the event,

they veered right because you dropped lots of arty on their route, and the

company had to fight alone, with help from one halftrack. Also, one platoon

had gone to the crossroads already. Your right side position fought the

remainder to a standstill. But I had the objectives, and burned a lot of

your arty, and that was enough for the secondary effort.

The main effort was meant to go in on the right. My objective was that bald

hill (northernmost objective), and I planned to put an "L" around it, front and my right side. The

high ground there masks the approach from everything farther back. Lots of

heavy weapons - including the HMG platoon and a Hummel - would overwatch the

approach to the hill itself, and I sent ahead a (poor) platoon HQ with one

squad split into half squads (the rest of that platoon went to company HQ

"platoons"). They were the scouts that found your first half-squad. I

avoided the direct approach through the woods, expecting heavy arty there,

with the main body. But some heavy weapons did go through there, and lost

some men to it. What turned into the frontal attack was one Hummel, the

left-sliding elements of the front part of the planned "L", and one platoon

that veered right from the left side company. I sent them in when it turned

out you didn't have a lot of firepower where the two wires were in the

center. I was expecting that to be a planned kill zone, and stayed out for

a while. But eventually I sent a half-squad through and they had no

problems, so the front side of the L turned into a frontal attack, more or

less down the middle.

The right wheel company swept over everything in its path easily. They had

to pull back for the one tank on that side down low, but only for a turn

since one of their schrecks bagged it rapidly. It only took time. But they

got in the house easily once around the hill, behind the wall and covered by

the hill itself, then woods leading left. This group would have won the

fight for me, I think, had the whole fight been closer. As it was, the

front collapsed and the tanks died about the time this group started

reaching the objective, so the final push was "overdetermined". They did

account for 3 of the 5 tanks - the first by schreck at 125m, the second by a

remnant 3 man team that still had a faust and made it to the church

outbuildings, and the last by another schreck hiding behind the center of

the wall over there, slanting behind the hill. A second Hummel was backing

them up, but never fired a shot - the one in front did all the shooting you

saw. Everything was dead or the ground taken by the time the other one got

into view - it was 1 minute late 3-4 times in a row. I'll take problems

like that.

I was worried about a 50 cal high in the church and hiding, because the

Hummels can be killed by them. But that threat never materialized. I liked

the technique I found to deal with this danger in the case of the frontal

Hummel. I just nudged only far enough forward to see the ground right

outside the church, not the church proper. Then I area fired at a location

about 4m outside. The booms were big enough - I think 2 shells reduced the

.50 to 1 man left, and they did it from out of LOS. That is a tactic worth

remembering. It is especially effective with the enourmous caliber weapons,

but even vanilla 75mm tanks can use it e.g. against ATGs.

[JasonC]

The final score info for my version - Germans 115 losses, 31 KIA, 2 vehicles (SPW-251/9s - one by Sherman, 1 gun damaged by 105mm arty, then bogged in the soft ground and abandoned), 347 OK. US 151 losses, 33 KIA, plus 47 PW from the surrender, 5 tanks KOed.

I think the Germans are favored in this fight, due to terrain, numbers, and the significant vehicle support they get counterbalancing many of the US advantages. If anyone wants to make it harder on the Germans, try it without the Hummels, and with just 2 SPW-251/9s instead of 3.

But then part of the point was to test whether a battalion of infantry with limited support could attack a force with strong artillery support and tanks. The answer seems to be "yes" (good play can draw with the Americans, as Jarmo's performance shows), at least with fairly wooded terrain limiting the length of tank LOS lines.

[Redwolf]

For me the most intering point about that battle was that by turn 26 (or 30) I would have called it a day, having taken the north-south road including all terrain that can overwatch it and the hill in the southwest. The remaining two tanks and all the MGs cornered around the former Church were too much of a hassle to attack with my very limited infantry.

However, at the time it happend that several Schrecks with remaining rounds were 200-225 meter from the tanks and the attack just went on. I had a completely uncommited platoon left which wiped out the tank's bodyguard in the woods east of the church, and it looked like the American front would collapse, since another almost fresh platoon was heading from south and one of my halftracks knocked out the second-to-last Sherman. However, a Sherman already on way to reinforce the forward defense killed my halftrack, and the artilleries answer to my reserve platoon was very violent and broke it instantly and the platoon from south subsequently had all the enemy fire for them alone. So the battle would last several turns longer and I would have committed more vehicles for dangerous duties.

I lost no man in MG or mortar teams or in artillery spotters. One halftrack has been traded for a Sherman. Three platoons have been lost due to stupidity (overly optimistic charges), the equivalent of three by artillery and the equivalent of three is still on the map.

It is interesting to note that the Panzerfausts were more effective than the Schrecks. The units carrying them are faster and more robust. Most Schrecks died from artillery fire, some from tank fire. As said, one Sherman was knocked out by a halftrack (with 5 shots or so).

The Hummels had a large effect on the battle, as would a 57 mm AT gun have had.

The most important lesson to learn here is that tanks are toasts in this environment of much infantry, difficult ground (relative to the tanks open-ground going, which is bad for the old Shermans) and sufficient cover. I invested too many resources in getting rid of the tanks. In special, I was willing to risk considerable infantry losses to charge tanks into unknown terrain, which clearly did not pay off.