Stand off infantry AT asset SOP and ROF in CMBB

[Tero]

Are there any stories circulating about any possible improvents on the Pzschreck (and possibly separate Pzfaust) team performance.

In CMBO they stick to a target and expend all rounds in one 60sec cycle. And reveal their position in the process and they start drawing fire like excrement draws flies.

I would think realistically two (failed) shots should be the maximum before the team assumes Hide mode and/or haul ass to a secure position to try their luck again later. And not expend all their precious ammo in one turn and/or get killed in the process.

[offtaskagain]

I was thinking something similar.

[Michael Emrys]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tero:

I would think realistically two (failed) shots should be the maximum before the team assumes Hide mode and/or haul ass to a secure position to try their luck again later.<hr></blockquote>

You can already implement the haul ass option by giving the team a movement order and a pause or two. Having them otherwise go into a hide state after the second (or whatever) shot as part of the TacAI is an interesting idea. I'm not sure it would be universally well received, however.

Michael

[Vanir Ausf B]

I've had several AT teams get a kill on the 3rd or later shot. I would have been annoyed if they had packed it in earlier. More realistic? Would depend on the situation.

[Dogface21]

It would be somwhat simple to do I geuss. If the team doesnt get a kill with the second shot and they are taking fire, they book to a secure spot, if they are not taking fire, they stay and keep trying. If the hit % was say >50% or somthing, and they didnt kill with the third shot, they either re-hide, or relocate, but either way they hold fire.

Just an idea for a solution.

[CMplayer]

As people have mentioned, you can try to get this effect using the existing commands. For example, you crawl them forward to a firing postion, timing the order so they will get LOS to the target in the last 20 seconds or so of the action phase. Then you can rehide them, or even use withdraw.

But MUCH better would be a full blown set of SOP options, for all the units in the game.

[The Commissar]

That would be a good idea if the AT teams weren't hapless morons who can't hit the broadside of a barn while standing inside.

Sometimes it went as far as having Vet teams not being able to score a kill at 60 meters or so, until the 4th or 5th shot even. Boy would I be pissed if after shot 2 the cross eyed idiots went and hid, letting the target skip away the next turn.

[CMplayer]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by The Commissar:

Sometimes it went as far as having Vet teams not being able to score a kill at 60 meters or so, until the 4th or 5th shot even.<hr></blockquote>

Were they tired? That seems to seriously degrade performance.

[Juju]

Geez, will you look at that topic title and read what it actually reads? Quite a mouthfull. try it real fast without stumbling over your own tongue:

Stand-off-infantry-anti-tank-asset-standard-operating-procedure-and-rate-of-fire-in-Combat-Mission-Barbarossa-to-Berlin.

Definitely a nominee for the longest topic title ever.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

You can already implement the haul ass option by giving the team a movement order and a pause or two.

Yes. But TacAI has the upper hand in synchronizing the procedure. With a constant pause you are liable to get the team shot up if you pause for too long and the Absolute spotting takes full effect in case the opponent has not overlooked combined arms and close support for the armour by infantry.

Having them otherwise go into a hide state after the second (or whatever) shot as part of the TacAI is an interesting idea. I'm not sure it would be universally well received, however.

I personally would not stay up while reloading a weapon which backblast broadcasts my position to every unit in sight.

Besides, IMO the only true state for any infantry unit not doing anything is Hide. There is no Stealth mode available in CM.

[Tero]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

I've had several AT teams get a kill on the 3rd or later shot. I would have been annoyed if they had packed it in earlier. More realistic? Would depend on the situation.<hr></blockquote>

Indeed. But I would say the weapon itself is of such nature that you would want to fire it only if the first shot hit chance is better than 60-70%.

Also, with only 5 shots there really is no way you would want to expend them on the same target during a single 60sec reaction phase. And miss the lot leaving the tank alive.

[Tero]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

But MUCH better would be a full blown set of SOP options, for all the units in the game.

Agreed.

But that would easily lead to the national bias/force specific SOP quagmire.

[Tero]

Originally posted by The Commissar:

That would be a good idea if the AT teams weren't hapless morons who can't hit the broadside of a barn while standing inside.

According to BTS the consistent unluckiness is being looked at.

Sometimes it went as far as having Vet teams not being able to score a kill at 60 meters or so, until the 4th or 5th shot even.

Or not even with the 4th or 5th shot.

Boy would I be pissed if after shot 2 the cross eyed idiots went and hid, letting the target skip away the next turn.

But I bet not as pissed as you would be if they got shot at, suppressed and routed after having fired with full ROF with nothing to show for it.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Juju:

Definitely a nominee for the longest topic title ever.

How about this one:

FO's and procedure concerning FP's, TRP's and TOT FM's using maximum ROF with a limeted number of volleys to obtain the perfect surprise against the unsuspecting enemy.

[edgars]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CMplayer:

Were they tired? That seems to seriously degrade performance.<hr></blockquote>

Is this true?

This is first time I hear this.

Could someone comment?

[Tero]

Originally posted by ciks:

Is this true?

This is first time I hear this.

Could someone comment?

I for one have not noticed any noticeable difference for the better if the team has been in not-tired state. If there is a difference it must be minuscule at best.

[CMplayer]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tero:

Originally posted by ciks:

[qb]

I for one have not noticed any noticeable difference for the better if the team has been in not-tired state. If there is a difference it must be minuscule at best.<hr></blockquote>

I haven't tested it, but my impression has been that a tired shreck team shoots worse. It's interesting that you think otherwise. Any test range jockeys want to check it out?