Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 i was curious about the projected release date for combat mission 2, as i just ordered combat mission, and i fear that i am buying a product that no one will play after cm2 comes out...I personally hate russian tanks, guns, etc, the techniques that they used for fighting goes against all that i stand for, even though close combat 3 was a far cry from being a bad mod, i just can't stand to fight a world war 2 game that doesn't have americans in it, as i am american. So i hope to stay with CM1 as long as i can, and MAYBE i will play combat mission 2 IF they come out with an english speech mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunny Bunny Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Sept 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Fred Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Gunny Bunny: Sept 2001 I don't believe they've been that specific. As I understand it, "Fall 2001" is what BTS has said. ------------------ Later, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 aaah!!! good, thats not for a while!, i can play quite a bit of CM till then.... im happy again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Sgt Fred: I don't believe they've been that specific. As I understand it, "Fall 2001" is what BTS has said. Sgt. Fred, you are right and Gunny Bunny is wrong. BTS have stated that they 'aim' for a release in Fall 2001. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Cleavis: i was curious about the projected release date for combat mission 2, as i just ordered combat mission, and i fear that i am buying a product that no one will play after cm2 comes out...I personally hate russian tanks, guns, etc, the techniques that they used for fighting goes against all that i stand for, even though close combat 3 was a far cry from being a bad mod, i just can't stand to fight a world war 2 game that doesn't have americans in it, as i am american. So i hope to stay with CM1 as long as i can, and MAYBE i will play combat mission 2 IF they come out with an english speech mod... Oh boy, young grasshopper. As an American myself, I do not limit myself to playing wargames that go along with my moral standards. Take for example, the American Civil War's method of fighting where men stood 50m in front of one another and firing point blank range at one another. I simply detest that sort of fighting, but you know what, it happened. I play wargames for their historical accuracy, not based on if I like the combat methods of the time. So to rule out playing an WWII: East Front game because you don't like the way it was fought is truely selfish. Oh boy, you say that you can't stand to play a WWII game because it doesn't have Americans in it, that is VERY selfish. And as for coming out with an English Speech Mod for CM2. Chalk that up as NEVER. Not gonna happen, bud. These are HISTORICAL simulations, not just games. As the new Desert Rats mod coming out, the authors of it are making Italian Speech Mods, so for someone to make a English Mod for CM2 is like making a Japanese Speech Mod for CM1, what's the purpose? Hate to come down on you like this, but you have to understand. BTS is venturing on making the most historically and accurately detailed simulations that this genre has ever seen. And yes, a Conscript UK Cromwell can take out a German Tiger from the side. Let's not even mention what a Firefly can do. If you don't like the direction, then you need to go back to playing CC. ------------------ "Upon my signal, unleash Hell."--General Maximus, Gladiator "Aim small, miss small."--Mel Gibson, The Patriot "I do what I likes, and I likes what I do."--Darrell Hammond (portraying Bill Clinton), SNL [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 03-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 well... i can tell who is a russian fan... im not saying that i detest the Russian's Morals, it was their METHOD of fighting, they used massed numbers of mediocre equipment, human wave tactics, etc. Plus, the russians don't have enough of a variety of units, i like lots of toys to play with, not thousands upon thousands of T-34 tanks, most of which were manned by conscripts who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a nuclear weapon. don't get me wrong, maximus, it probably WILL be quite accurate, but i just don't like the talk im hearing about more command delays for the russians, i know their methods of communications were less advanced than germans and americans, i just think the minute of action phase that you can't intervene in should be considered the time it takes to get a new order in. All things considered, i do not think that the russian front will be all that entertaining, as the germans always are better experienced, so russian losses will be horrible, i know that is accurate, its just not FUN, i know that CM series games are supposed to be realistic, but losing tanks 10:1 in favor of the germans isn't very fun... least' i don't think so.. my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Cleavis: well... i can tell who is a russian fan... im not saying that i detest the Russian's Morals, it was their METHOD of fighting, they used massed numbers of mediocre equipment, human wave tactics, etc. Plus, the russians don't have enough of a variety of units, i like lots of toys to play with, not thousands upon thousands of T-34 tanks, most of which were manned by conscripts who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a nuclear weapon. That is about as far off the truth as I can imagine. I recommend some reading, and avoidance of whatever sources you base this post on. Try anything by David Glantz, or Ericsson, if you are more the academic type, or for a nice easy read 'Hitler's greatest defeat' by Paul Adair. You will definitely learn something. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Not enough unit types? They should have more infantry types...including SMG squads of their own. And longer range Flamethrowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 It's the elegance of the CM engine and the WEGO system that makes CM the game it is. As a result, I STRONGLY suspect that any game using the engine will be at least as successful as CMBO was/is. Furthermore, I suspect that CMBO will be played for years to come even if updates to the engine aren't retroactive ... and we have no definitive word on that yet. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Cleavis: i just can't stand to fight a world war 2 game that doesn't have americans in it, as i am american. Then youre missing out on a good 2/3rds+ of the war. Originally posted by Cleavis: So i hope to stay with CM1 as long as i can, and MAYBE i will play combat mission 2 IF they come out with an english speech mod... Yay! I can just see it, coming complete with bad Russian accents, just like Red Alert 2! I can do the voice acting! "Aghh-firmative, comahad!" Originally posted by Cleavis: well... i can tell who is a russian fan... *raises hand* Originally posted by Cleavis: im not saying that i detest the Russian's Morals, it was their METHOD of fighting, they used massed numbers of mediocre equipment, human wave tactics, etc. Plus, the russians don't have enough of a variety of units, i like lots of toys to play with, not thousands upon thousands of T-34 tanks, most of which were manned by conscripts who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a nuclear weapon. Behold, the product of American history classes! My friend, the Russians had more variety of equipment then any of the other Allies, and their AFV's and troops were second in variety only to Germany itself! Listing their tanks alone will take a while, not to mention other AFV's, troop types (ski troops, SMG squads, partisans...) and various other weapon platforms (Katchushas). Variety is definately something the Soviets are not lacking in. Oh, and if wave attacks with massed conscripts bother you, dont fight in the early war years. Later on, troops imporved in quality and tactics. Originally posted by Cleavis: don't get me wrong, maximus, it probably WILL be quite accurate, but i just don't like the talk im hearing about more command delays for the russians, i know their methods of communications were less advanced than germans and americans, i just think the minute of action phase that you can't intervene in should be considered the time it takes to get a new order in. All things considered, i do not think that the russian front will be all that entertaining, as the germans always are better experienced, so russian losses will be horrible, i know that is accurate, its just not FUN, i know that CM series games are supposed to be realistic, but losing tanks 10:1 in favor of the germans isn't very fun... least' i don't think so.. Again, very incorrect. I know it may be hard to believe, both Soviets came out *gasp* better off then the Germans once in a while, too! Especially when you go to the later years of the war, as previously mentioned. As Germanboy said, do a bit of reading or even searching on the web or even this very messege board! You will attain much enlightment. Cheers! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Cleavis- As opposed to,say,the summer of '41,when the Germans outnumbered the Russians in *modern* tanks?The Russians didn't roll over the Germans in '43-'45 due to 10-1 odds-they rolled over them due to largely equivalent equipment,and good doctrine. There are many good books on Eastern front operations and tactics in WW2-you should check them out.I look forward very much to playing as the Russians in CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Also at the beginning of the invasion the majority of German tanks were outclassed by the T-34. It was training, experience, leadership, communications and the Luftwaffe that made up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 i stand corrected...maybe i will read up on them a little bit...i just hope it's not like close combat 3, where the germans have ALL the advantages, through most of the campaign... btw about the funny accented russians- that would be hilarious, take em straight out of red alert 2 that would make my day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Germanboy: That is about as far off the truth as I can imagine. I recommend some reading, and avoidance of whatever sources you base this post on. Try anything by David Glantz, or Ericsson, if you are more the academic type, or for a nice easy read 'Hitler's greatest defeat' by Paul Adair. You will definitely learn something. LOL! I was just about to say the same thing. That is about as far off from the truth as I have ever heard. Losing tanks on a 10:1 basis? Hardly, do you realize that the advent of the T-34 frightened the bejesus out of the Germans as they didn't have anything comparable to it at the time. IIRC, when the Russians came out with the T-34/41, the Germany's top tanks were the PzIIIJ with a 50L/60 gun and a PzIV F with the 75L/24 gun before the up-gunned F2 with the 75L/43 gun. T-34s had, help me here Andreas, 75 somethings with better armor. T-34s had way more survivability than PzIIIs and PzIVFs On a side note: Looking through my Encyclopedia of German Tanks, I have discovered that the PzIV H & J had those spare road wheels on the side of the hull and not the G. Shame the textures aren't correctly mapped for this difference as the StuGIII and StuGIV are. Anyway, I'm not a Russian fan, I'm going to take great pleasure in giving the Red Army a slashing as the best I can while taking great loses of my own as their T-34s will rip through my PzIIIs and IVs. That's why T-34s were used up until about the 1970s in several world armies. Besides, you forget the large metal beasts that Russia built later in the war that overwhelmed the puny Panthers and Tigers. As for the lop sided German victories, I think we're thinking about the earlier BT series of tanks, where yes, PzIIIs and early PzIVs were more than a match for them. EDIT: Whoa, that was a mess, must a been that last beer. Had a BAD typo above if you missed it. ------------------ "Upon my signal, unleash Hell."--General Maximus, Gladiator "Aim small, miss small."--Mel Gibson, The Patriot "I do what I likes, and I likes what I do."--Darrell Hammond (portraying Bill Clinton), SNL [This message has been edited by Maximus (edited 03-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 sorry to have gone off half-cocked though, for real, i should have done more research, but i didn't because i never liked russian designed stuff, see, i couldn't give a rats hairy butt about how the communication or crap like that is handled, as the only thing i care about is cool tanks that have realistic damage, i remember having to pretty much hack close combat 3, just to get the reload rates higher, as i didn't like having to wait 30+ seconds to fire a 76.2 mm gun, only to miss the shot anyway...but thats off topic so, im sorry i assumed too much, ill wait till it comes out to judge it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Cleavis, You will always have a CM1 oppponent with me. I am more of a fan of the Western Front than the Eastern. Although I definetely plan to buy CM2, there's no way I'll stop playing this theatre, even if there is a significant change in graphics, engine, etc. I just hope that CM will be upgradable to the new engine and all the bells and whistles of CM2. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 OK, apparently didn't pick up on the accuracy of even the demo. All of CM's data is meticulously researched. From fire rates to armor quality. Of course firing rates differ by quality of crew also. I'm curious, when you hacked CC3 to change the fire rates, what did you take into account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 I have it on excellent authority that CM2 will come out at 5:15PM on 10-21-01 EST. Anyone who refutes this is simply crazy, on drugs, probably a Communist and for sure a registered child molester. ********************************** Never argue with one who is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleavis Posted March 4, 2001 Author Share Posted March 4, 2001 Maximus: i changed the reload rate to about, lets say, 10 secs max reload time for the 76.2mm gun, that is with a conscript crew, if you have ever seen the method in which those guns are reloaded, it could easily be shot in say, 1 shot every 5 seconds (unaimed). as far as some other guns go, like the 20mm on the T60, which was a swedish landswerk aircraft cannon, i made the fire rate to about 1 time per second (aimed). as far as heavier guns go, i set the rate higher, as the shells are heavier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 All previous computer WWII games, love playing Germans, mostly Eastern Front. Didn't care for Western Front. After CM, I find myself completely facinated with the Western Front and with no "favorite" side to play. I want variety, so I like to play all sides and "learn the doctrine". Having to play with the "other side's toys" adds variety and keeps CM fresh. Besides, you should always play the single player scenarios with the recommended side. Much more challenging and exciting, regardless what "side" you play. If no recommended side, take the attacker, regardless "who they are". I greatly look forward to CM2 and playing both the Germans and Russians. The Russian combat vehicles are really facinating and quite capable. Your cheating yourself by not thinking you would enjoy it because it has "boring human wave Russians and doctrine I don't like". And how did you come to that opinion? By playing CC? There you go. Wrong vehicle to base opinions on CM. I believe you and I will be greatly rewarded by suspending our personal bias and test driving on the Eastern Front. I don't let politics and personal morals get in my way when playing a WWII tactical computer game. I would be cheating myself. I can view it as a computer game and I can experience the tactical challenge of playing "all sides". CM is THE best vehicle for doing just that. You should test drive all the forces, including Russian! Then give us your "CM educated" opinion. Only, we are going to have to wait for that Russian test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schulz Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 well... i can tell who is a russian fan... im not saying that i detest the Russian's Morals, it was their METHOD of fighting, they used massed numbers of mediocre equipment, human wave tactics, etc. Plus, the russians don't have enough of a variety of units, i like lots of toys to play with, not thousands upon thousands of T-34 tanks, most of which were manned by conscripts who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a nuclear weapon. I find it really hard it hard to believe you really played the CC3 game at all with this statement. Not only in real life did the Russians have a vast amount of various equipment....in the CC3 unmoded game itself provided quite a variety of choices not only in armor but in Infantry choices. im hearing about more command delays for the russians, i know their methods of communications were less advanced than germans and americans, i just think the minute of action phase that you can't intervene in should be considered the time it takes to get a new order in. Is it me or is that time you are watching the movie from your last set of orders? What the delay means, correct me if i'm wrong, that when you give your unit a command, the time next to "Delay" at the bottom of the screen will be longer. All things considered, i do not think that the russian front will be all that entertaining, as the germans always are better experienced, so russian losses will be horrible, i know that is accurate, its just not FUN, Upon reading will will probably find out that mass slaughters occured because of orders to fight to the death on both sides. More than a few times German groups were surrounded and annililated, as were Russian groups, and we are taling 10's to 100's of thousands of men at a time. i know that CM series games are supposed to be realistic, but losing tanks 10:1 in favor of the germans isn't very fun... least' i don't think so.. I do't know if you are aware of the fact that the Panthers and Tigers were built with the Soviet frame of mind, both modeling the panther after proven Soviet armor styles and to combat the tanks with the thicker armor. There were SU series KV, and the ever deadly IS series to name a few. Also as the war drew on the US and Great Britain supplied AFV and other weaponry. Correct me if I am wrong but the German assault rifle was modled after the already proven Soviet Assault gun (grandpappy of the AK-47) seen in the East front....sorry this is a bit vague I am at work and don't have my books to get accurate nomenclature. [This message has been edited by Sgt Schulz (edited 03-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by Jagdwyrm: Not enough unit types? They should have more infantry types...including SMG squads of their own. And longer range Flamethrowers Hmmm... T35's.... [This message has been edited by nick (edited 03-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barrold713 Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 I am going to second a previous post on the ability of CM to generate an enthusiasm for West Front combat that was overshadowed before by my interest in the East Front. Naturally I am salivating at the prospect of CM2 and I will no doubt be slaking my jones for quite a while after it is released. (Quick Aside: my prediction for the release date is early 2002) The Russo-German War has always intrigued me due to the scope and ferocity of that conflict. I also just dig tanks...lots and lots of tanks. CM opened a true interest in the tactics and equipment that the allies fielded whereas previously I had thought of them as low quality vanilla units. The occasion that I had a Stuart pop up over a ridge and knock out a Panther from the flank in one of my first scenarios played was eye-opening. I can not see how CM2 will provide these same type of experiences to players not familiar with the war in the east. Something else to consider is the (hopeful!) inclusion of Finnish units. If you want the opportunity to spank the soviets and don't like playing the germans, this might be right up your alley. ------------------ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted March 4, 2001 Share Posted March 4, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: Behold, the product of American history classes I realize that you mean no offense, Commissar, but I've been hearing a lot of comments like this lately. Statements like this are nearly as ignorant as the comments that trigger them. Since I'm a product of the American education system, and I'm hardly a dummy, I attibute many of these misconceptions to other sources. As much as I hate to admit it, I blame Hollywood for many 'historical' myths out there today (at the risk of reopening THAT can of worms again! LOL!). Another problem is that many people, from all over the world, seem to lack the ability to think critically. It seems to me that many people accept anything they read as gospel - especially if it's on the internet. That goes for views on the intelligence of Americans as well as views on WWII history. I just wanted to point out that comments like you made can make you appear to be as misinformed as the people you are trying to mock. Since you're clearly an intelligent fellow, I'm sure that this is something you strive to avoid. If your comments were made entirely in jest (which I'm guessing they were), then I apologize. Guess I'm just getting a bit tired of the baseless anti-American comments that I've been hearing lately. I'll take some Vagicil now and I'll be all right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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