yobobo@TH Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 Ok, 800 meeting, one flag, med map blah blah. Last turn I am sitting on the flag, LMG and a few slobs. 50 meters away and around the flag I also have an IV/70 and 2 heavy AC's. To the south and south west I have a few slobs pinning some Inf (stragglers), about 100 meters away. I also have inf. overlooking the flag on another angle. Last turn he rushes in the few he has left and they die/runaway. End game results is a draw. All his armor is toast along with a few AT guns and most of his inf. What happened here? This has happened to me about 4 times now and I would like some help with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 Sounds to me like your troops tripped over a Peng thread. But seriously... Maybe there were uncommited enemy troops nearby that was enough to make the AI think your VL was still being contested. I suggest that you exchange passwords and take a look and see the situation if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 How bad were your total losses? If they're bad enough, the flags don't matter much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobobo@TH Posted May 12, 2001 Author Share Posted May 12, 2001 It was a great battle, but ****ola. The end result was we both took the same loses. But again I was sitting in, on and around the flag and had all the toys around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 what was the flag worth? minor or Major? Did either player have to exit vehicles? Did your opponent start out with less units than you? Was the flag contested at the end your did it show your colours? The posession of the flag can be somewhat irrelevant if it was only worth 100 pts and you took 300 points worth of your OWN losses to to only 200 points worth of your opponents losses that you inflicted (flag = 100 - 300 losses = 200 losses which is = (Draw) to the 200 losses you inflicted.) oh and since we are on the subject of points you must inflict MORE than 1.25 to 1 losses for it NOT to be a Draw Its all about points right? Points for flags held and point for his units destroyed and your units destroyed. The rule book says less than or equal to 1.25 to 1 is a Draw less than or equal to 1.75 to 1 for a minor victory so the minor victory you want is for points that are *1.26 to 1 up to *1.75 to 1 Just a theory? -tom w [ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] [ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] [ 05-11-2001: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobobo@TH Posted May 12, 2001 Author Share Posted May 12, 2001 No, just a straight meeting 800 each. No exiting. Here is an old CC2 trick, does it work in CM? If we both have 800 points and I exit and or only buy lets say 600 points worth of crap, will I gain an advantage? Since my 200 points are safe and all. This is off on a different subject and the guy I played is a good straight up player. In no way am I saying this was done...but can it be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 At the end of the game, friendly, healthy on map troops and AFVs count for your point total. If you don't purchase the units, or exit them so they don't get killed, you prevent your opponent from scoring points for killing them but you also deprive yourself of points since only on map units count. This all assumes there is no "exit for points" victory condition. Jason Cawley is the real expert on this but I'm 99% sure I'm right based on some of his posts. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 yobobo, did CM gave you the flag or was it neutral? As crisl said, once losses are high, flags don't do much to victory anymore. [ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yobobo@TH Posted May 12, 2001 Author Share Posted May 12, 2001 It was neutral at the end game result. But like I said, I owned it, my guys in it, and all around it. My opponent even said, Hmm strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 There must be an enemy unit within 80m of the flag. If there is not then I have no idea how it could be neutral. Was it an ME or an attack/defend? The amount of points you spent is as important as how many of your units are still alive and how many of the enemy's you killed. Did the other guy capture any of your units? Captured units are worth more than killed units. Also, some units (tank crews) are worth extra if killed, and arty observers are worth less than what they cost to buy. The best explanation of how victory levels are calculated comes courtisey of JasonC: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This is how it seems to work, based on my observations anyway (corrections welcome). Add up all the objectives, your force points, and the enemy force points. That is the total "pool" of points, and serves as the *divisor* for victory level calculations. The remaining procedures do not change this divisor. Award the objectives to the side that controls them, or to neither if abandoned or contested. Live guys to the side that owns them, dead guys to the enemy side. Some units seem to be awarded to neither - either guys that run off the map, or broken/routed units still on the map, or both - I am not sure about those, but there seems to be such a category. This forms the numerator for each side, with the total of the two numerators, less than or equal to the denominator from step one. Divide each sides numerator, by the one common denominator. That is the victory level for that side, in percent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As Tom said this ratio must be greater than 1.25 to 1 for you to win. [ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: Vanir Ausf B ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 Jason's explanition is not quite right, at least not worded right. You don't add life guys anywhere. You add damage inflicted (incl. caputred units that count more) plus flags held to three parties, you, opponent, neutral. That's it, alive guys are irrelavant. The force size you started with is also irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yobobo@TH: If we both have 800 points and I exit and or only buy lets say 600 points worth of crap, will I gain an advantage? Since my 200 points are safe and all. This is off on a different subject and the guy I played is a good straight up player. In no way am I saying this was done...but can it be done?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That is not an advantage, only kills or captured counts, the starting force size does not. Exited units count as if they are alive on the battlefield and have no influence on victory level. If the flags are captured by one player and no losses on either side occured, he wins 100%, so you either have to go after the flags or you have to inflict enough casualities that flags do not matter. But if you want to be tricky against a player you don't have a chance against, you can do this: In a 1000 pt battle, buy only artillery, airplanes and max out tank points for tank destroyers and one fat SP gun. You cannot spend all your points but lets say 500 out of 1000 points. You don't plan on taking the flags from start. You empty the artillery on what seems most valuable and you run your tank destroyers to get as much of his valuable vehicles as you can. While you do, his armour cannot defend his infantry, which you unload your SP gun on. Then you withdraw all units you still have from the map, after you stayed around for long enough for the figther-bomber to do its work. Victory level: you knocked out 400 points from him, for typicall a loss of 400 points (1:1 trades). In 1000pt games, there are usually 300 points in flags and he holds all of them. Thus he wins, but only 700:400, that is far from the major defeat you would suffer when trying to push a far superiour player from the flags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 [double post, flood prtection runs amock] [ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted May 12, 2001 Share Posted May 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yobobo@TH: It was neutral at the end game result. But like I said, I owned it, my guys in it, and all around it. My opponent even said, Hmm strange.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In that case you have neutral flag and as you said compable losses. Then you get the draw. The only question left is - why did the flag switch to neutral at the opponent's rush? CMBO switches a flag to neutral when any significant enemy unit is near. I don't know exaclty what a significant unit is but lets say an intact squad is. So, if one intact squad is at the flag, it is neutral and it does not matter how many units you have at the flag. It is *not* the relative strength at the flag that counts. If he has this squad (or whatever minimum is) at the flag, you can have 20 Jagdtigers around it, it is neutral. [ 05-12-2001: Message edited by: redwolf ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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